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Putting Off The Green


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#31 Weetbix

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 07:01 AM

Don't, under any circus pants, venture into the rules threads?


It's dangerous entertainment I'll give you that
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#32 Schmuck

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 07:25 AM

Still looking for Mr Dickhead in the index of my R&A........
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#33 pom

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 07:33 AM

  The ball was deflected by the flagstick as it was removed from the hole. OP states  that the ball was still in motion & the act of removal caused it to come out of the hole.

 Therefore 17-2 does apply as the player instructed that the flag be left in the hole.

 Decision as Colin posted in post 2.

 As for RDs take on this. I would have thought that the players instruction to leave the flag in the hole would be enough to absolve him of any blame for the subsequent actions of the fellow competitor standing next to the flag.


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#34 AAA

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 07:57 AM

 On one hole i was a couple of inches off the green so i decided to putt. I asked that the pin not be taken out, however as my putt was going into the hole, the guy attending panicked and pulled the pin out as the ball dropped. 

We need to know more specifically where the other player was before you made the stroke.

And when you told him not to remove the flagstick, before or after you made the stroke. 

 

See Decisions 17-2/1 & 17-2/2

 

http://www.usga.org/...sion-17,d17-2-1



#35 BarnEsy05

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 09:25 AM

I'm afraid of clowns..

How do you live with yourself?????


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#36 ink

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 09:27 AM

How do you live with yourself?????

by knowing where my right elbow is....



#37 Bumpy_McBumpFace

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 10:21 AM

I love clowns, but I would struggle to eat another one. They taste funny


"But sometimes there are more important things in life than being pedantic about the rules of golf, or spelling and grammar on golf forums"

#38 Toph

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 05:27 PM

I love clowns, but I would struggle to eat another one. They taste funny

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#39 OldBogey

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 06:06 PM

The note at the bottom is not relevant in this case as the ball did not hit the flagstick.
 
However, I now agree with OB when he says
 
"Rule 17 expressly covers what may and may not be done with regards to attending the flagstick.  Therefore Rule 1-2 does not apply, Exception 1 says so."


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#40 OldBogey

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 06:08 PM

Still looking for Mr Dickhead in the index of my R&A........


That was the name I gave to the idiot who pulled the flagstick out when he had been told not to.

#41 OldBogey

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 06:10 PM

Don't, under any circus pants, venture into the rules threads?


It's a fun place to be.

#42 pom

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 10:09 AM

We need to know more specifically where the other player was before you made the stroke.

And when you told him not to remove the flagstick, before or after you made the stroke. 

 

See Decisions 17-2/1 & 17-2/2

 

http://www.usga.org/...sion-17,d17-2-1

 Did he indicate that he had heard your instruction to leave the flag in or is it possible that he did not hear it.

    These are the issues that we are faced with when asked to make a ruling after the event.

  If asked to make a ruling before the card is submitted you can only go with the information available

. Sometimes it is not possible to get all the information but you still need to make a ruling..

 This is such a case. If you wanted to make an accurate ruling you would need to talk to the player that moved the flagstick but in many club competitions that may not be possible if the player has already left the course. Trying to make that decision on this forum is even worse but as I said , you can only go with the information supplied. If further evidence comes to light at a later date you can always explain to those involved what that means to the ruling that you gave but the ruling in most cases has to be made on the spot with the information that is available at the time. Again we are relying on players honesty


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#43 Weetbix

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 12:00 PM

Ok - putting aside if there was any special circumstances this time

If I ask another player to leave the flag in and they move it anyway what happens to me?

And does how close they are standing matter even thought I've told them what I want them to do?
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#44 OldBogey

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 03:02 PM

Ok - putting aside if there was any special circumstances this time
If I ask another player to leave the flag in and they move it anyway what happens to me?
And does how close they are standing matter even thought I've told them what I want them to do?


In most cases, Weeti, there's SFA you can do.
If you ask someone to attend the flag then they walk away without it after you've hit your putt, you get the penalty if your ball hits the flagstick. It's most unfair.

How close? Nearby. There is no defined distance.

It's always best to announce your wishes clearly. Few people will deliberately do the opposite just to annoy you.

#45 pom

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Posted 02 December 2016 - 07:10 PM

Ok - putting aside if there was any special circumstances this time

If I ask another player to leave the flag in and they move it anyway what happens to me?

And does how close they are standing matter even thought I've told them what I want them to do?

If the ball hits the flagstick you are in exactly the position described in the Original post. If the ball does not hit anything , No problem.

 I have been in the situation where the flagstick was stuck in the hole & would not come out. fortunately the putt was off line. since then if I am attending the flag I check to make sure that it will come out when I lift it

BTW when we tried to take the flagstick out  the cup came out with it . It took us 10 minutes backing it against a concrete sand bin to loosen it so that the cup came of the stick.


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