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Putting Off The Green


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#16 ColinCL

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 07:30 PM

Rule 17 expressly covers what may and may not be done with regards to attending the flagstick.  Therefore Rule 1-2 does not apply, Exception 1 says so.

 

If that is not what was intended, it is yet another case of a poorly worded rule.

 

Rule 17  says nothing about whether or not you can use the flagstick to influence the movement of a ball.  If I picked up the flagstick and knocked your moving ball  aside with it  so that it didn't go into the hole, what part of Rule 17 says my action was permissible? 



#17 OldBogey

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Posted 29 November 2016 - 08:13 PM

That's not what happened.

Why don't you go back to the top of page 1 and refresh your memory ?

#18 BumpunRun

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 09:46 AM

it makes me sad that they have decided not to engage your trolling anymore. 


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#19 pom

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 04:10 PM

That's not what happened.

Why don't you go back to the top of page 1 and refresh your memory ?

The way I read the OP that is exactly what happened. By removing the flag stick he knocked the ball away from the hole. Obviously the intention was to remove the flagstick so that the ball could go into the hole. Thus  influencing the movement of the ball. All this after being asked to leave the flag in the hole.

 As I see it. the problem is not how the rules are written, but how some people misread them.


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#20 OldBogey

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 06:48 PM

The way I read the OP that is exactly what happened. By removing the flag stick he knocked the ball away from the hole. Obviously the intention was to remove the flagstick so that the ball could go into the hole. Thus  influencing the movement of the ball. All this after being asked to leave the flag in the hole.
 As I see it. the problem is not how the rules are written, but how some people misread them.


The point is that there is a rule about attending the flagstick, and exception 1 to rule 1-2 says this rule doesn't apply if another rule covers it. As rule 1-2 therefore doesn't apply, what can you do about Mr Dickhead?

You, and others, are trying to apply an excluded rule, despite the obvious logic in doing so.

The only solution would then be to extend rule 17 (it is 17, isn't it?) to encompass actions such as this. Or just simplify the rules.

#21 BumpunRun

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 06:52 PM

The point is that there is a rule about attending the flagstick, and exception 1 to rule 1-2 says this rule doesn't apply if another rule covers it. As rule 1-2 therefore doesn't apply, what can you do about Mr Dickhead?

You, and others, are trying to apply an excluded rule, despite the obvious logic in doing so.

The only solution would then be to extend rule 17 (it is 17, isn't it?) to encompass actions such as this. Or just simplify the rules.

So apart from calling me a Dickhead, there's nothing in the rules that punishes me if I whack your ball away from going in the hole?
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#22 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 30 November 2016 - 09:29 PM

I actually agree with OB (kill me please)

Rule 17-2 seems to cover it in my opinion. Because the stroke was made from off the green, the ball is played as it lies. If the stroke was made on the green, the stroke would be cancelled and replayed.

http://www.randa.org...Attendance#core


The note at the bottom is the important part

Edited by Itchy4Scratch, 30 November 2016 - 09:35 PM.

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#23 AAA

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 01:26 AM

I actually agree with OB (kill me please)

Rule 17-2 seems to cover it in my opinion. Because the stroke was made from off the green, the ball is played as it lies. If the stroke was made on the green, the stroke would be cancelled and replayed.

http://www.randa.org...Attendance#core


The note at the bottom is the important part

The note at the bottom is not relevant in this case as the ball did not hit the flagstick.

 

However, I now agree with OB when he says

 

"Rule 17 expressly covers what may and may not be done with regards to attending the flagstick.  Therefore Rule 1-2 does not apply, Exception 1 says so."


Edited by AAA, 01 December 2016 - 01:40 AM.


#24 AAA

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 01:47 AM

I don't think RD & I have ever disagreed before so I'm getting a little worried - but not a lot (yet).

 

I now agree with RD.   :)

 

17-2 does not apply because Note 2 to 17-1 says so.


Edited by AAA, 01 December 2016 - 01:50 AM.


#25 Itchy4Scratch

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 01:51 AM

The note at the bottom is not relevant in this case as the ball did not hit the flagstick.

However, I now agree with OB when he says

"Rule 17 expressly covers what may and may not be done with regards to attending the flagstick. Therefore Rule 1-2 does not apply, Exception 1 says so."

My mistake, I thought it hit the flagstick and that was what caused it to come out of the hole

#26 RobNewy

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 05:25 AM

My mistake, I thought it hit the flagstick and that was what caused it to come out of the hole


Thats the way i read it as well.

He pulled the flag up as the ball was going down
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#27 AAA

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 05:31 AM

Oops. Misread it myself.



#28 Weetbix

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 06:22 AM

So what's the ruling?

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#29 Goldy

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 06:50 AM

Don't, under any circus pants, venture into the rules threads?
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#30 ink

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Posted 01 December 2016 - 06:55 AM

Don't, under any circus pants, venture into the rules threads?


I'm afraid of clowns..




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