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Constantly Catching Wedges Heavy


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#16 Weetbix

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 06:33 PM

Sorry ink - should have kept your name out of it

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#17 ink

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 06:44 PM

Sorry ink - should have kept your name out of it

All good....you becoming a bit soft...



#18 Weetbix

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 06:45 PM

All good....you becoming a bit soft...


Yeah - just setting you up

Handicap

Best result: 2 over 74 at Hills International on 13 Feb 2016

Eagles: 21/10/16 17th Keysborough, 24/10/16 18th Woodlands

Goal: A round at par or better!

Brisbane Fairways 2015 Club Champion

Brisbane Fairways 2015 Clubman of the Year

Winner: 2015 Nationals day 5 round at Links Hope Island

Winner: 2016 Nationals day 5 round at Woodlands

South East Queensland Golf Group - Treasurer

http://www.brisbanef...ssocialgolf.com - Treasurer


#19 Old Poppy

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 07:26 PM

There was guy named Gerry Hogan - I think - who wrote a book and talked about - I think - keeping the watch face pointing to the sky as long as you can in your downswing until nature forces the hands to rotate through
Is that his feel for maintaining external rotation Raz?

External rotation of the shoulder is rotating the upper arm away from the centre of the body. This is the natural movement during the back swing. The complexity in this is that the forearm needs to rotate in the opposite direction. The golden rule in golf is that both thumbs point upwards during the upswing to keep the club on plane. Didn't we cover this in another thread recently?

The feeling is both forearm and upper arm rotate away from the target or clockwise for a righty. Although they are rotating opposite to each other, they rote in the same direction at the end of the upswing. Golfers who have a posture with the shoulders internally rotated, will struggle with external rotation. Conversely those with square shoulders will have an easier time understanding external shoulder rotation.

Edited by razaar, 30 May 2016 - 07:30 PM.


#20 Weetbix

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 07:29 PM

Maybe not recently! :)
I've been picking your brain for a long time!

Thanks Raz

Handicap

Best result: 2 over 74 at Hills International on 13 Feb 2016

Eagles: 21/10/16 17th Keysborough, 24/10/16 18th Woodlands

Goal: A round at par or better!

Brisbane Fairways 2015 Club Champion

Brisbane Fairways 2015 Clubman of the Year

Winner: 2015 Nationals day 5 round at Links Hope Island

Winner: 2016 Nationals day 5 round at Woodlands

South East Queensland Golf Group - Treasurer

http://www.brisbanef...ssocialgolf.com - Treasurer


#21 Toph

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 08:15 PM

Thanks Razaar. You have me thinking.
I presume you advocate these movements for the full swing. I can get the shoulder external rotation, and that holding that as much as possible through impact will force better body rotation and lag, something I need badly.

Don't understand the forearm move you suggest. Forearms can supinate or pronate. You say "The feeling is both forearm and upper arm rotate away from the target or clockwise for a righty. Although they are rotating opposite to each other, they rotate in the same direction at the end of the upswing. "
Don't understand how they can rotate opposite then same direction? I would have thought there was mainly supination of firearms during backswing??
I'm just pissed off OK? Don't ask.
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#22 Old Poppy

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 09:23 PM

OK, fair question. The ideal is both upper arms rotate from left to right. To control rotation of the clubface both forearms rotate from right to left . The left forearm supinates (see the palm) while the right pronates (see the back of the hand). This rotation pressure continues from the start of the back swing to impact.

Supination at the bottom of the swing has palm up while at the top the palm is down. Pronation has the palm down at the bottom and palm up at the top. LH Supination has a counter clockwise rotation when the forearm points down which becomes clockwise when the forearm points upwards. RH pronation has the same rotations. This means the RH humerus and forearm are rotated clockwise once the forearm points up.

Does that explain it?

#23 Old Poppy

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 09:49 PM

If you are still struggling to understand maybe this will help. The clubface is controlled by the wrists. The wrist comprise the hand and forearm. The hands are attached to the club so in reality they are part of the club. Therefore the forearms are in control of the clubface. The fingers will tell us what the clubb is doing but to control the clubface we need forearm rotation. The upper arms control shoulder rotation and shoulder protraction or retraction.

#24 Toph

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Posted 30 May 2016 - 11:16 PM

Thanks Razaar. I'll do some research. It's a struggle!
I'm just pissed off OK? Don't ask.
READ EM AND WEEP
http://www.golflink....k_No=4072302355

#25 RobNewy

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 06:14 AM

This is why im having trouble with my shortgame.

Because i have absolutely no idea about this
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#26 Weetbix

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 06:48 AM

If you are still struggling to understand maybe this will help. The clubface is controlled by the wrists. The wrist comprise the hand and forearm. The hands are attached to the club so in reality they are part of the club. Therefore the forearms are in control of the clubface. The fingers will tell us what the clubb is doing but to control the clubface we need forearm rotation. The upper arms control shoulder rotation and shoulder protraction or retraction.


Is it fair to add to this Raz that the upper arms and shoulder movement will seek to open the face during the backswing but we want to keep the face as square to the arc as we can do the forearms have to counteract the upper arms to do that?

Handicap

Best result: 2 over 74 at Hills International on 13 Feb 2016

Eagles: 21/10/16 17th Keysborough, 24/10/16 18th Woodlands

Goal: A round at par or better!

Brisbane Fairways 2015 Club Champion

Brisbane Fairways 2015 Clubman of the Year

Winner: 2015 Nationals day 5 round at Links Hope Island

Winner: 2016 Nationals day 5 round at Woodlands

South East Queensland Golf Group - Treasurer

http://www.brisbanef...ssocialgolf.com - Treasurer


#27 Old Poppy

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 06:56 AM

Thanks Razaar. I'll do some research. It's a struggle!

These movements will be foreign to the average golfer but are essential to a natural golf swing.

In my previous post I omitted to include wrist flex and wrist extension.
Wrist flex has the hand flexing towards the inside of the forearm. Supination of the forearm flexs the wrist together with rotation. The wrist flexors work with the biceps which requires a slight flex in the arm.
Wrist extension has the back of the hand extending towards the back of the forearm. Pronation of the forearm extends the wrist together with rotation. The extensors work with the triceps extending the arm. This is why the forearm needs to roll around the humerus at the elbow instead of hinging and the shoulder needs to externally rotate.

#28 Old Poppy

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 07:06 AM

Is it fair to add to this Raz that the upper arms and shoulder movement will seek to open the face during the backswing but we want to keep the face as square to the arc as we can do the forearms have to counteract the upper arms to do that?

Yes Weeti, the clubface opens during the upswing through the rotation of the upper arms. The forearms limit the rotation to 90 degrees or under. Square at the top is 90*, closed is under 90*.

The correct downswing action also opens the clubface through RS external rotation and the elbow driving forward. This needs to countered by left forearm supination to square up the clubface to under 90*.

#29 Tonk

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 09:53 AM

Steve, I don't understand most of what is written in this thread and am nowhere near your golfing ability but I have had a similar problem.

Mine came from trying squeeze too much distance out of my wedges. As I was attempting to hit them further I was unknowingly increasing the angle of attack at the ball.

Big divots and short landings all over the place. I readjusted my wedge distance expectations and found I hit the ball with better tempo and contact.

Winter turf conditions exacerbated the issue. Not sure that helps you but was my problem.
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#30 Madambo

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Posted 31 May 2016 - 10:16 AM

 I readjusted my wedge distance expectations and found I hit the ball with better tempo and contact.
 

Steve  are you "decelerating" when hitting your wedges?  I like Tonk's comment about tempo.

 

Ive seen many players have big back swings then slow down on follow through creating a "fat" result. 

 

Good info from Aussie pro Derek Hooper.


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