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Why Is Golf So Complex And Complicated?


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#226 Toph

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Posted 16 November 2016 - 06:31 AM

odd way of looking at it , you wouldn't measure the real length of a cricket match on a batsmans swing. There Is a point hidden though, someone once pointed out that a nice smooth tempo transcended every moment on the course , rarely would you see someone rush around at breakneck speed then hover over the ball with a smooth easy swing ,

I think this is why I prefer walking to carts. I find it hard to rush around from ball to ball in a cart, then get the right headspace over the ball. Easier to walk up to it, contemplating the shot in hand, select club and hit. It's a Tempo thing.
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#227 Hawkers2015

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Posted 16 November 2016 - 07:00 AM

odd way of looking at it , you wouldn't measure the real length of a cricket match on a batsmans swing. There Is a point hidden though, someone once pointed out that a nice smooth tempo transcended every moment on the course , rarely would you see someone rush around at breakneck speed then hover over the ball with a smooth easy swing ,

 

 

Not really what I meant, although I see your point.

 

I was thinking more about how having all this idle time gives you lots of time to think in unproductive ways - the hazards you want to avoid, what could go wrong, stewing about how you farked the last shot/home, etc ... 



#228 hack2489

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 11:30 AM

I was watching the History Channel on Foxtel the other night about medieval castles. The show was making rope for the lifting equipment to move the stone and mortar at the construction site.

The rope was constructed by twisting four separate lengths of hemp fibres on a machine in one direction and then twisting the four lengths together in the opposite direction. This process gives torque and strength to the finished rope.

I have been searching for a way to describe the pros golf swing that may make sense to golfers. As I was watching the rope being twisted I immediately thought of the golf swing. The arms and legs from the elbows and knees down are twisting one way while the upper arms and body are being twisted in the opposite direction.
For a righty the lower limbs are twisting counter-clockwise and the upper limbs and body are twisting clockwise. The difference between back swing and forward swing is in the pelvic movements. There is no effort to rotate the larger body parts towards the target, this is the role of the lower limbs.
This is how the golf swing develops torque with everything exploding through impact with the full weight of the body behind the clubhead.

 

Can someone explain this to me, please? I really don't understand.

 

This bit:

 

"The arms and legs from the elbows and knees down are twisting one way while the upper arms and body are being twisted in the opposite direction."

 

Huh?

 

Is this in the backswing, downswing or both?

 

Then, the next bit has me stumped too ...

 

"For a righty the lower limbs are twisting counter-clockwise and the upper limbs and body are twisting clockwise. The difference between back swing and forward swing is in the pelvic movements. There is no effort to rotate the larger body parts towards the target, this is the role of the lower limbs."

 

I do not understand when during the swing my lower half would be turning different to my upper half, except for say, that split second of the transition when the upper half is still moving back and the lower half has started to uncoil / unwind / rotate the other way.

 

And, the bit about the 'no effort to rotate the larger body parts toward the target, this is the role of the lower limbs" ... if I do that, and only use lower half, legs, hips etc, then my arms up up way behind me and clubface stays way way open.

 

I know I'm missing something in this understanding. :unsure:



#229 hack2489

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 11:39 AM

I have a novel idea in how to convey the feelings we need to create in the golfswing.

 

The easiest way for me to identify what needs to occur, is to cast my mind back to childhood, believe it or not.

 

I could get all zen and say you need to be the club, and in fact we have all "been the club" during our childhoods.

 

If we cast our minds back to being on a swing in the old playground, we could no doubt still picture and feel that smooth acceleration on the downswing, where everything moves in sync.

 

The chain or rope is taut, there is no slack in it, our weight begins to feel heavier and directing down into the ground as the downswing begins, and the acceleration is perfectly smooth and fast thru the bottom of the arc, before slowing down on the upswing.

 

The smoother this downswing acceleration where everything is in sync, and the more weight we can direct downwards ....... the faster and higher we can go on the upswing of followthru.

 

The key is that everything moves in sync, the same as the golfswing .... we don't try to "get ahead" of the chain, nor do we try to lag behind the chain, it all just moves as one, from the central point above us.

 

Some of our longest drives are when we are relaxed and just let it happen, when we find that our bodies just move in sync, the same as being on a swing.

 

A golf swing really shouldn't be that hard to get right should it?

 

You take the club back and up, and then as it starts back down, you direct your weight downwards, and accelerate the arms and body smoothly thru the bottom of the arc and beyond ......

 

Just my thoughts though ...... :)

 

Interesting explanation. Thanks.

 

I've been at home all week nursing recovering for a twisted spine surf incident and spending time laying out flat thinking about my golf swing and what I do not understand (like the post above). Between walks around the house, yard and block and then some sitting, I have been looking, reading and trying to bit up idea's about the swing sequence, tempo, power source, etc.

 

The above analogy makes some sense.

 

Question I have though, is where does the 'acceleration' come from in the downswing?

 

And,

 

Is it applied constantly and evenly up to and through the point if impact?

 

I'm trying to understand what I don't know ... :rolleyes:



#230 BumpunRun

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 12:51 PM

Interesting explanation. Thanks.

 

I've been at home all week nursing recovering for a twisted spine surf incident and spending time laying out flat thinking about my golf swing and what I do not understand (like the post above). Between walks around the house, yard and block and then some sitting, I have been looking, reading and trying to bit up idea's about the swing sequence, tempo, power source, etc.

 

The above analogy makes some sense.

 

Question I have though, is where does the 'acceleration' come from in the downswing?

 

And,

 

Is it applied constantly and evenly up to and through the point if impact?

 

I'm trying to understand what I don't know ... :rolleyes:

it's all about the whoosh, about the whoosh 

 

I have many favourite drills, but one definitely in the top 7 is the whoosh drill. 

If you grab a club and hold it by the head end and swing, listen to when the whoosh happens.

Ideally you want your whoosh after the point of contact, this means that you have accelerated through the ball. If your whoosh is before the ball, you are accelerating too early 

hearing and feeling where your whoosh is and adjusting your acceleration, you will find the optimum spot on where you need to give it a rip


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#231 Weetbix

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 01:00 PM

With the Poppy points think about this - to get your whole body to turn right in the backswing (righty of course) you have to twist your feet against the ground in the opposite direction. The friction against the ground stops your feet from moving so your body twists in the opposite direction.

One of Newton's Laws - equal and opposite reaction

So that's what Poppy means for the lower body below the knees - IMO

For the arms Poppy advocates an approach of counter rotating the forearms the opposite way to how the upper arms will twist open in the backswing naturally by the turning of the shoulders. This keeps the clubface square to the arc, whereas nature would open it on the backswing. That's the forearm bit IMO.
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#232 OldBogey

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 04:05 PM

Can someone explain this to me, please? I really don't understand.
 
This bit:
 
"The arms and legs from the elbows and knees down are twisting one way while the upper arms and body are being twisted in the opposite direction."
 
Huh?
 
Is this in the backswing, downswing or both?
 
Then, the next bit has me stumped too ...
 
"For a righty the lower limbs are twisting counter-clockwise and the upper limbs and body are twisting clockwise. The difference between back swing and forward swing is in the pelvic movements. There is no effort to rotate the larger body parts towards the target, this is the role of the lower limbs."
 
I do not understand when during the swing my lower half would be turning different to my upper half, except for say, that split second of the transition when the upper half is still moving back and the lower half has started to uncoil / unwind / rotate the other way.
 
And, the bit about the 'no effort to rotate the larger body parts toward the target, this is the role of the lower limbs" ... if I do that, and only use lower half, legs, hips etc, then my arms up up way behind me and clubface stays way way open.
 
I know I'm missing something in this understanding. :unsure:


What you're missing is the point that someone has made a simple concept so ridiculously complex that no normal person could comprehend it. Perhaps it was done for a doctorate.
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#233 OldBogey

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 04:26 PM

Interesting explanation. Thanks.
 
I've been at home all week nursing recovering for a twisted spine surf incident and spending time laying out flat thinking about my golf swing and what I do not understand (like the post above). Between walks around the house, yard and block and then some sitting, I have been looking, reading and trying to bit up idea's about the swing sequence, tempo, power source, etc.
 
The above analogy makes some sense.
 
Question I have though, is where does the 'acceleration' come from in the downswing?
 
And,
 
Is it applied constantly and evenly up to and through the point if impact?
 
I'm trying to understand what I don't know ... :rolleyes:


Get onto youtube, search for 'golf swing analysis ' with a name (Tiger Woods will do). In particular, note that as the hands pass the right thigh, the left forearm and club shaft form a right angle (they've had that relationship from near the top). When the hands get to the left thigh, the club shaft and forearm are more or less straight in line. Obviously, the club head has accelerated much more than the hands. Other essentials at that 'right thigh' position are that the back of the left hand (the logo) is facing outward, not toward the target and the left wrist is flat to slightly bowed, not cupped.

Your left hand grip on the club has to allow for that downswing right angle and a straight line without straining.

Make all that happen and you're well on your way.

I will add that I think most swing analysts go into so much detail that it can only confuse the average golfer. Perhaps those at the top of the game can utilise the details.
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#234 hack2489

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 04:42 PM

it's all about the whoosh, about the whoosh 

 

I have many favourite drills, but one definitely in the top 7 is the whoosh drill. 

If you grab a club and hold it by the head end and swing, listen to when the whoosh happens.

Ideally you want your whoosh after the point of contact, this means that you have accelerated through the ball. If your whoosh is before the ball, you are accelerating too early 

hearing and feeling where your whoosh is and adjusting your acceleration, you will find the optimum spot on where you need to give it a rip

 

Thanks Bumpun One. Makes sense and have used that previously. But, I can make it WHOOSH no worries, and then still proceed to plough into the ground when I set up to a ball :rolleyes:



#235 hack2489

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 04:44 PM

With the Poppy points think about this - to get your whole body to turn right in the backswing (righty of course) you have to twist your feet against the ground in the opposite direction. The friction against the ground stops your feet from moving so your body twists in the opposite direction.

One of Newton's Laws - equal and opposite reaction

So that's what Poppy means for the lower body below the knees - IMO

For the arms Poppy advocates an approach of counter rotating the forearms the opposite way to how the upper arms will twist open in the backswing naturally by the turning of the shoulders. This keeps the clubface square to the arc, whereas nature would open it on the backswing. That's the forearm bit IMO.

 

Yeah, got it ... it happens by itself (law of physics), and not a 'move' I have to worry about doing myself, right? :huh:



#236 hack2489

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 04:49 PM

Get onto youtube, search for 'golf swing analysis ' with a name (Tiger Woods will do). In particular, note that as the hands pass the right thigh, the left forearm and club shaft form a right angle (they've had that relationship from near the top). When the hands get to the left thigh, the club shaft and forearm are more or less straight in line. Obviously, the club head has accelerated much more than the hands. Other essentials at that 'right thigh' position are that the back of the left hand (the logo) is facing outward, not toward the target and the left wrist is flat to slightly bowed, not cupped.

Your left hand grip on the club has to allow for that downswing right angle and a straight line without straining.

Make all that happen and you're well on your way.

I will add that I think most swing analysts go into so much detail that it can only confuse the average golfer. Perhaps those at the top of the game can utilise the details.

 

Thanks OB.

 

Yep, I get the "L" and it's release between thighs. One of the key things I got from reading the Dante book actually, was 'how' I could get the club back to square by NOT manipulating or forcing that "L" to undo itself. I'd always been one to do it WAY too early, with the old, mistaken belief I had to use my arms to get the club back to make contact with the ball ... Now, lately, I've been using the upper body, chest n torso to turn through and with that the hips HAVE to get clear. I'm just trying to work out the power sequence to get good impact and distance.

 

I know there is a little piece I'm missing, and once I get that it will click.



#237 Weetbix

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 04:50 PM

Yeah, got it ... it happens by itself (law of physics), and not a 'move' I have to worry about doing myself, right? :huh:


I think Poppy has worked on making the actions distinct feels / actions

For the legs maybe it's pretty natural

The forearms though wouldn't require work

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#238 Weetbix

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 04:52 PM

Try throwing a ball underarm with just body motion and see if that is a clue to the missing piece
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Best result: 2 over 74 at Hills International on 13 Feb 2016

Eagles: 21/10/16 17th Keysborough, 24/10/16 18th Woodlands

Goal: A round at par or better!

Brisbane Fairways 2015 Club Champion

Brisbane Fairways 2015 Clubman of the Year

Winner: 2015 Nationals day 5 round at Links Hope Island

Winner: 2016 Nationals day 5 round at Woodlands

South East Queensland Golf Group - Treasurer

http://www.brisbanef...ssocialgolf.com - Treasurer


#239 hack2489

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 04:56 PM

Try throwing a ball underarm with just body motion and see if that is a clue to the missing piece

 

Fine line between too much and too little arms?



#240 Weetbix

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Posted 27 October 2017 - 06:35 PM

Fine line between too much and too little arms?


Yep

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Best result: 2 over 74 at Hills International on 13 Feb 2016

Eagles: 21/10/16 17th Keysborough, 24/10/16 18th Woodlands

Goal: A round at par or better!

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Winner: 2015 Nationals day 5 round at Links Hope Island

Winner: 2016 Nationals day 5 round at Woodlands

South East Queensland Golf Group - Treasurer

http://www.brisbanef...ssocialgolf.com - Treasurer





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