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How Do You Know When Lessons Are Working . And What Should Be A Good Time Frame To See Improvement ?


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#61 pimuhewrut

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Posted 22 April 2016 - 10:50 PM

I didn't want immediate improvement, but 6 months of tourture? Seriously when you start having played to of 29 every round after its nearly enough to make you quit.
I just couldn't get my body into the positions and places that he wanted with how rubbish my body is. He's obviously a very good coach. He has some very talented players under him and the friend that gives me lessons that sees him has gone from 32 to 1 in 3 years and only works with him.

I know 6 people that have been to him. Half liked his teaching half didn't. Different strokes for different blokes.

 

You know what I find interesting about this? I've talked to heaps of players and they all seem to be have drastically differently expectations of their pro. Some expect to remain crap forever while others want to have genuine shot of turning pro. In finance there's something we call risk profile analysis test. Basically, it says that some people are willing to bet the house and their swing falling apart for long term gain while others only want to bet a little bit but at the risk of lower threshold for potential improvement.

 

http://www.investope...isk-profile.asp

http://www.investors...t-basics/risks/

 

I think this is basically the real question you're asking here and the you're best bet would be to do something similar and show it to your pro to make sure you both know where you're headed and whether your plan for it is realistic:

- willing to expect 5% blowout in scores over every few months to see potential 10% average improvement in scores over the next year

- willing to expect 10% blowout in scores over every few weeks to see potential 20% average improvement in scores over the next year

- willing to expect 15% blowout in scores over every few days to see potential 30% average improvement in scores over the next year

 

Obviously, the higher up you go the more difficult it's going to be to improve but if both of you are honest with one another this type of analysis/plan could help you.


Edited by pimuhewrut, 22 April 2016 - 10:51 PM.


#62 Lukos87

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 07:01 AM

You know what I find interesting about this? I've talked to heaps of players and they all seem to be have drastically differently expectations of their pro. Some expect to remain crap forever while others want to have genuine shot of turning pro. In finance there's something we call risk profile analysis test. Basically, it says that some people are willing to bet the house and their swing falling apart for long term gain while others only want to bet a little bit but at the risk of lower threshold for potential improvement.

http://www.investope...isk-profile.asp
http://www.investors...t-basics/risks/

I think this is basically the real question you're asking here and the you're best bet would be to do something similar and show it to your pro to make sure you both know where you're headed and whether your plan for it is realistic:
- willing to expect 5% blowout in scores over every few months to see potential 10% average improvement in scores over the next year
- willing to expect 10% blowout in scores over every few weeks to see potential 20% average improvement in scores over the next year
- willing to expect 15% blowout in scores over every few days to see potential 30% average improvement in scores over the next year

Obviously, the higher up you go the more difficult it's going to be to improve but if both of you are honest with one another this type of analysis/plan could help you.

I don't see how this applies to me.
It didn't work.
I tried something else, it worked.
Lost 6 shots and still dropping.
I'm happy.

Seems pretty simple.

Or are you suggesting I keep trying to push crap up hill for no reason ?

Edited by Lukos87, 23 April 2016 - 07:02 AM.

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#63 GhettoGolfer

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 12:02 PM

You know what I find interesting about this? I've talked to heaps of players and they all seem to be have drastically differently expectations of their pro. Some expect to remain crap forever while others want to have genuine shot of turning pro. In finance there's something we call risk profile analysis test. Basically, it says that some people are willing to bet the house and their swing falling apart for long term gain while others only want to bet a little bit but at the risk of lower threshold for potential improvement.

http://www.investope...isk-profile.asp
http://www.investors...t-basics/risks/

I think this is basically the real question you're asking here and the you're best bet would be to do something similar and show it to your pro to make sure you both know where you're headed and whether your plan for it is realistic:
- willing to expect 5% blowout in scores over every few months to see potential 10% average improvement in scores over the next year
- willing to expect 10% blowout in scores over every few weeks to see potential 20% average improvement in scores over the next year
- willing to expect 15% blowout in scores over every few days to see potential 30% average improvement in scores over the next year

Obviously, the higher up you go the more difficult it's going to be to improve but if both of you are honest with one another this type of analysis/plan could help you.


Your logic is flawed and the risk for reward model can't apply.

Your assumption that x amount of backwards movement in short term score will definitely result in long term improvement. You are also assuming that a full swing rebuild would guarantee an improved score?

There are too many other variables to reduce it to such a simple relationship.

Expectation from their pro vs expectation from their lessons vs long term goals are very distinct from one another.
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#64 pimuhewrut

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 07:18 PM

Your logic is flawed and the risk for reward model can't apply.

Your assumption that x amount of backwards movement in short term score will definitely result in long term improvement. You are also assuming that a full swing rebuild would guarantee an improved score?

There are too many other variables to reduce it to such a simple relationship.

Expectation from their pro vs expectation from their lessons vs long term goals are very distinct from one another.

 

You and I are both reading too much into one another (and what we're saying) at the moment I'm guessing we probably have really different backgrounds.

 

This is basically been the assumption that I and a lot of other young players (who were have wanted to turn pro and have turned pro) have made because we've been relatively athletic for a large chunk of our lives. We know that eventually somehow we'll figure out a way to swing using a certain method (the differences will be minor but enough). I've even met some players who are ambidextrous (I right handed but can play lefty but am shorter) and can mimic others players swing consistently just by watching them. We've been able to figure things out eventually (some of them had to undergo a lot of stretching and partake in lifestyle changes to allow for swing changes). I'm guessing this is the main reason why we make the assumption that all else equal finance risk/reward model is similar to this analogy because risk/reward.

 

You also need to realise that there is no guarantee with the finance risk/reward model as well. Hence, the enduring fine print in PDS documents stating, "Past performance is no guarantee of future performance".

 

That said, I know where you're going. I have tried certain techniques and have persistently been unable to improve much or have gone backwards.



#65 pimuhewrut

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 07:24 PM

I don't see how this applies to me.
It didn't work.
I tried something else, it worked.
Lost 6 shots and still dropping.
I'm happy.

Seems pretty simple.

Or are you suggesting I keep trying to push crap up hill for no reason ?

 

Read my other post. For some players all it takes is a swing cue and everything seems to click. For a long time, I had sequencing flaws caused by hips outracing my arms. The only cue I could use to make things work was to make it feel as though my arms would come down first then my hips, etc... That's what allowed me to basically swing as hard as I could without spraying the ball everywhere. You just don't know. It could have been that things were explained to you better and we won't know unless we see before and after videos.



#66 GhettoGolfer

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 08:55 PM

You and I are both reading too much into one another (and what we're saying) at the moment I'm guessing we probably have really different backgrounds.

 

This is basically been the assumption that I and a lot of other young players (who were have wanted to turn pro and have turned pro) have made because we've been relatively athletic for a large chunk of our lives. We know that eventually somehow we'll figure out a way to swing using a certain method (the differences will be minor but enough). I've even met some players who are ambidextrous (I right handed but can play lefty but am shorter) and can mimic others players swing consistently just by watching them. We've been able to figure things out eventually (some of them had to undergo a lot of stretching and partake in lifestyle changes to allow for swing changes). I'm guessing this is the main reason why we make the assumption that all else equal finance risk/reward model is similar to this analogy because risk/reward.

 

You also need to realise that there is no guarantee with the finance risk/reward model as well. Hence, the enduring fine print in PDS documents stating, "Past performance is no guarantee of future performance".

 

That said, I know where you're going. I have tried certain techniques and have persistently been unable to improve much or have gone backwards.

 

1. I have only posted one response pointing out the flaw in your logic. How that can be construed beyond a simple difference of opinion is a little beyond me at this point. 

 

2. You are assuming that I have no background in finance? 

 

3. Your premise that you can only actively apply your risk/return model if you are relatively young and athletic? You can be SH!TE as hell and still apply the same theory. Improvement is relative to your starting base. 

 

4. Your initial statement implied that you were applying your logic to all players - simply state that its your opinion and that you arent representing a broader group. 


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#67 pimuhewrut

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 10:25 PM

1. I have only posted one response pointing out the flaw in your logic. How that can be construed beyond a simple difference of opinion is a little beyond me at this point. 

 

2. You are assuming that I have no background in finance? 

 

3. Your premise that you can only actively apply your risk/return model if you are relatively young and athletic? You can be SH!TE as hell and still apply the same theory. Improvement is relative to your starting base. 

 

4. Your initial statement implied that you were applying your logic to all players - simply state that its your opinion and that you arent representing a broader group. 

 

1. That's what I damn well said. We just have different backgrounds and experiences.

2. What the hell has that got to do with this? I give you some background on why I'm potentially making that assumption and all you're doing is nit picking.

3. You're reading too much into this. I'm just telling you that that's just my background. I've taught and turned really poor (and better) players into better players in a single session and over extended periods as well and played with and around heaps of other players as well. Once again just assuming we just have different backgrounds and experiences at all

4. Basing this on my personal experiences with hundreds of players and years of reading, watching video, playing, etc...

 

Honestly, (as I said before) I think you're reading way too much into this. It feels like you just want to be right but for me this comes down to the fact that we just have different backgrounds and experiences. For all you know I could be a pretty good player or coach (with broad experience in the game) or just a complete weed whacker (and making all of this stuff up). It's just an opinion, a point. That's it. In either case, I'm not interested in arguing about different experiences. It's rediculous



#68 GhettoGolfer

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Posted 23 April 2016 - 11:04 PM

 

1. That's what I damn well said. We just have different backgrounds and experiences.

2. What the hell has that got to do with this? I give you some background on why I'm potentially making that assumption and all you're doing is nit picking.

3. You're reading too much into this. I'm just telling you that that's just my background. I've taught and turned really poor (and better) players into better players in a single session and over extended periods as well and played with and around heaps of other players as well. Once again just assuming we just have different backgrounds and experiences at all

4. Basing this on my personal experiences with hundreds of players and years of reading, watching video, playing, etc...

 

Honestly, (as I said before) I think you're reading way too much into this. It feels like you just want to be right but for me this comes down to the fact that we just have different backgrounds and experiences. For all you know I could be a pretty good player or coach (with broad experience in the game) or just a complete weed whacker (and making all of this stuff up). It's just an opinion, a point. That's it. In either case, I'm not interested in arguing about different experiences. It's rediculous

 

Relax jack - there is a difference between flawed logic and difference of opinion. I was merely pointing out that your logic wasn't making sense. No need to get narky. 

 

Your line: "you and I are reading too much into one another" - sounds more like an emotive statement and an opinion that you have already made of me, when all I did was disagree with you. 

 

I was kinda punching out the previous responses in a hurry, so didn't really get a chance to soften the post a little so that it wouldn't come across as antagonistic as it did. So I can understand why you have gotten your back up. 

 

It's true, you could be a pro, a great player or whatever. 

 

If you are prepared to present an opinion as fact, be prepared to defend your position with reason and logic if its challenged. 

 

 

 


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#69 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 28 April 2016 - 02:17 PM

Something that all golf coaches should consider when teaching a hacker.

 

https://youtu.be/JhLRM1D1KG4






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