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Why are people so quiet on the NBN?


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#31 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:16 PM

 

Well doing it for the kids is a nice emotive arguments but I thought you wanted me to listen to reason?
 

 

What’s emotive about providing a future for your kids? You either take on the responsibility or you don’t.

 

 

 
Certainly the government is pushing this as an off budget investment but that is based on an untested business case. I predict that we will see enormous write off's in the coming decade as the business case fails to stack up to the valuation.

The business case is provided by telcos and ISPs in Australia and all around the world. What is it that is different?

 

 

 

And as the costs continue to blow out.

As for copper being redundant within a decade I've yet to see that demonstrated. It's like the argument that the world will run out of food in ... well the 70's and then every decade since. It's been made before - back in the 90's. But technology has improved the speed of cable well beyond what was imagined then. I remember a few years back that people predicted the net would run out of IP addresses.

 

 

Copper cables have a life time because of the nature of their construction and chemical properties. You don’t seem to understand that or are unwilling to accept that it is so.

 

 

 

One of the biggest issues with the government making a bet of this size that this technological solution is the best one for the next 30 years is that technological change in this area is so rapid and so difficult to predict. Few saw just how pervading wifi would be today a decade ago, never mind 20 years ago.

 

Technology is constantly changing, no one has an argument with that. The engineers are telling you that fiber is the best transport for providing the medium for the evolution of these technologies. Then again, whoever pays attention to what an engineer ever said anyway.

 

 

 

My issue with your argument Jack is that it is wholly based on an assumption that the market will inevitably go to FTTH in a way that is more expensive and slower than the government is doing it. It's probably going to end up a $70-100 billion bet. I'm not going to put you down because you think it's a reasonable bet - that's your prerogative. But I'm not going to jump on board because you throw some sarcasm and some half arsed arguments at me. I've kept an eye on this issue since it came up. I'm not an expert but I'm not ignorant either.

If the proposal is as good as you say then why did the government push it through without due diligence? I can't get a $1m project approved at work without doing the business case that demonstrates that I've considered all options, done my homework on costings and benefits and have a reasonable case that stacks up to analysis. For the government to approve $30 billion of our cash without a similar process is a disgrace in my opinion. Especially given we all know that it is going to end up costing way way way more than that.

 

 

Your not listening are you? Its not your cash, it’s a capital cost to make an asset.

 

 

 

Not that any of this will make a bit of difference to you

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by Jack_Golfer, 21 August 2013 - 11:18 PM.


#32 Mekat

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:17 PM

Looking at the roll-out map on NBN Co's website, I see that my area is due to have work completed in the next 3 years, construction from June 2015 - Sept 2016... I really hope that means that even in the event of a change of government, that work will still go ahead... as scheduled.



#33 Manikato

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Posted 21 August 2013 - 11:21 PM

Looking at the roll-out map on NBN Co's website, I see that my area is due to have work completed in the next 3 years, construction from June 2015 - Sept 2016... I really hope that means that even in the event of a change of government, that work will still go ahead... as scheduled.


Yep the same for me.

#34 Groove_Snob

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 06:48 AM

Manikato, an interesting comment on the article in your link suggests that the coalition's FTTN policy is just a ruse, that once in government they will work to shut the NBN down... One does not need to remember too far back (the last election) when Abbott tasked Turnbull to kill the NBN... suddenly the libs have their own NBN...??
Just an observation!


What a load of hooey!!

Mekat, as soon as someone comes out and says something about your beloved Labor party, you accuse them of believing the LNP 'rhetoric'............

But then you come out with this nonsense!!

C'mon, seriously now..............
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#35 Weetbix

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 07:12 AM

Your not listening are you? Its not your cash, it’s a capital cost to make an asset.

Maybe you don't know what I mean when I predict write downs. Maybe you have no interest in my points apart from trying to rebut them.

If the business case is so good why did the government forgo the usual review?

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#36 Mekat

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:53 AM

Groove, settle down... I was just making an observation on someone's response to the article Weeti posted, and remembering what happened last election...

 

This thread is (or at least should) not specifically be about the two parties, but on the nessecarry infrastructure policy that is the NBN. Perhaps once in government the libs will see the longer term financial benefits of FTTH compared to FTTN and will restructure NBN Co is such a way that is done more smoothly than now...

 

I firmly believe that implementing FTTH now will in years to come be seen as far sighted policy, as the implementation of Medicare is today compared to when it started in 1973... That is how important I see the NBN to the future of this country.



#37 Manikato

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:24 AM

 
This thread is (or at least should) not specifically be about the two parties, but on the nessecarry infrastructure policy that is the NBN. Perhaps once in government the libs will see the longer term financial benefits of FTTH compared to FTTN and will restructure NBN Co is such a way that is done more smoothly than now...
 
I firmly believe that implementing FTTH now will in years to come be seen as far sighted policy, as the implementation of Medicare is today compared to when it started in 1973... That is how important I see the NBN to the future of this country.


Yep I don't care who implements it. But this is in my opinion the most important issue for Australia's future. Hopefully if the libs get in they won't have to bag it just to have a point of difference from Labor.

#38 Tolmij

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 10:58 AM

We need it, but it does not matter who implements it or builds it, the infrastructure costs will always be paid or by the consumer in the long run. Just look at the electricity grid, prices are rising to help pay for infrastructure, this was stated in this years price rise application in QLD. this has be done correctly from day one or we will pay forever. It's about Time the pollies got together instead of always trying one upmanship.
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#39 Kannis

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 01:51 PM

Frankly anyone not in It, such as myself couldn't give a 2 hoots. My net loads up fine, my movies and tv shows are very quick to download, plus we have more pressing issues in this country other than faster porn.


Edited by Kannis, 22 August 2013 - 01:51 PM.

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#40 Groove_Snob

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 03:12 PM

Frankly anyone not in It, such as myself couldn't give a 2 hoots. My net loads up fine, my movies and tv shows are very quick to download, plus we have more pressing issues in this country other than faster porn.

 

well if we (my family) were living in a car in a park somewhere, the NBN would have to be a must for me...........

 

but thats just me, maybe the other homeless families in the country might have a different view, but like i said thats just me!!


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#41 Talart

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 03:16 PM

We were down for 2016 or some such date, the past month the installation of the NBN has began. Fan-bloody-tastic the net is good here and thanks to the upgrade I have just realised why Telstra offered me a package that will save me $1000 a year on my phone/net/foxtel.

 

My business is 80% net based these days and the NBN is going to make it possible for me to really improve supply and products in digital/download products.

The following this article lists the fastracked towns South Australia's  rural  towns  winners  in  latest  NBN  round  


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#42 Tolmij

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 03:51 PM

We have more pressing issues in this country other than faster porn.


Name one :)
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#43 Rodent

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 08:26 PM

I've had cable internet for years. Every time they upgrade my download speed, I'm stuffed if I can tell the difference. 

 I'm sure the NBN will make a big difference to lots of people and not make any difference to many others.

 I don't like comparing road projects to the NBN as cars have been driven on roads in much the same way for decades. Fibre to the home is great for densely populated areas but I question it being rolled out to far flung places.

 People are getting used to the freedom of wireless and I worry that the NBN will too soon become a white elephant.

 Big investment for the future is great but I'm worried this one is like trying to back a winner and having an uncomfortably large bet. I hope it pays off but I have my doubts.



#44 Groove_Snob

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 08:33 PM

You know what, all this so called technology in the world and download speeds and all that crap,

I can't even get my friggin tv to work in cold temperatures!! As soon as it gets below about 6 or 7 degrees the only digital stations I can get are SBS and ABC...... And we all know there's some pretty awesome stuff on them!!

So how about we concentrate on that for a while as well and get it right, and let's not even mention mobile phone reception!!

Edited by Groove_Snob, 22 August 2013 - 08:34 PM.

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#45 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 22 August 2013 - 09:22 PM

I've had cable internet for years. Every time they upgrade my download speed, I'm stuffed if I can tell the difference. 

 I'm sure the NBN will make a big difference to lots of people and not make any difference to many others.

 I don't like comparing road projects to the NBN as cars have been driven on roads in much the same way for decades. Fibre to the home is great for densely populated areas but I question it being rolled out to far flung places.

 People are getting used to the freedom of wireless and I worry that the NBN will too soon become a white elephant.

 Big investment for the future is great but I'm worried this one is like trying to back a winner and having an uncomfortably large bet. I hope it pays off but I have my doubts.

 

Cable is a bit like wireless, its OK if one or two users are active but when lots of users are active at once, you get traffic jams.

 

Not so with fiber.


Edited by Jack_Golfer, 22 August 2013 - 09:25 PM.





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