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The T G M Followers Thread


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#1 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 12:42 PM

Seeing as the TGM Guys have gone into retirement, I thought that it might be useful to at least have a thread where us TGM die hards can continue to discuss issues relating to Homer Kelley's Golf Machine. Hopefully by posting our thoughts and experiences, we can keep the concept alive.

To get the ball rolling, I thought that this article could be a great way to start.

http://3jack.blogspo...golf-swing.html

Come on TGMers, lets hear it from you!
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#2 BROWNMAN

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 12:59 PM

I thought of doing something similar,to be honest....................its just not worth doing here.but,good luck jack


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I am NOT a teacher, coach.
Iam a LEARNER
What I post here is either from the book,OR what I have learnt from it.
You dont like it..fine....dont read it ....SIMPLE

#3 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 01:59 PM

Come on Browny, don't be so pessimistic. You're one of the biggest proponents of TGM around here, tell us what you are working on at the moment. I'm sure you have lots of interesting stuff tucked away in your diary.

 

Believe it or not, I think I am on the verge of feeling lag for the first time. I had a hint of it yesterday when I was chipping on my front lawn. Its something that has eluded me for so long! Its come from a number of adjustments and changes in technique, all coming together. Looking forward to spending some time on the driving range this week:-)



#4 TheDart

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 07:49 PM

Come on Browny, don't be so pessimistic. You're one of the biggest proponents of TGM around here, tell us what you are working on at the moment. I'm sure you have lots of interesting stuff tucked away in your diary.

 

Believe it or not, I think I am on the verge of feeling lag for the first time. I had a hint of it yesterday when I was chipping on my front lawn. Its something that has eluded me for so long! Its come from a number of adjustments and changes in technique, all coming together. Looking forward to spending some time on the driving range this week:-)



#5 TheDart

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Posted 09 August 2013 - 07:55 PM

Jack and Brownie,

 

Please go for it.

 

I will go to the end of the earth to help any thinking golfer.

 

If not here, you know my numbers.

 

If I can help one of my brothers I have helped HIM :)

 

I must be about my FATHERS work :) Yeah, a little messiah complex.



#6 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 12:17 PM

Hi Dart, nice to see you back. Hope to see you here more often, your wisdom is greatly appreciated.

 

Continuing on with the TGM discussion;

Over the past few weeks, I have had a series of revelations about some basic TGM concepts, each building on the other. I thought that relating these revelations could get some discussion going from those few TGM diehards still on ISG. Here goes with the first one, all comments welcome.

 

I have one of those plastic ball throwing sticks that one uses to throw the ball for the dog. While using it, it occurred to me that the action that I was using, to throw the ball, was exactly that used in a PA#1 action. Fair enough, nothing particularly exciting about that. But then it occurred to me that if that is the way PA#1 works, then the grip that one uses to hold the stick could be the same as well?

 

Now, for as long as I can remember, I have had trouble with my grip, particularly the right hand one. I have tried all sorts of positions, even the ones described on this Forum. They would work for a while but my grip position would gradually drift and eventually end up in a completely turned position. At which point I would start hooking uncontrollably.

 

So I figured on taking that same grip and exactly that same throwing action and apply it to my swing.

 

Now, you can read some things many times and think that you have an understanding of the concept. I thought I understood PA#1, its simple enough as a concept, isn’t it? Well so I thought but there is always a subtlety in these things that one can miss when it comes to the doing. That is when the throwing stick concept came into play.

 

While doing some experimental chips, using the same right hand grip position and arm action as with the throwing stick, it was a completely different feel to what I have been doing. I have been doing what I thought was the right action but the execution was wrong.

 

So having used the grip and correct arm action for a while now, the improvement in my hitting would suggest I am on the right track with this. At least now the grip feels stable and for the first time, I'm beginning to feel lag!

 

There is more to come on this but I'll leave this for any comments or discussion before going on.

 

Cheers


Edited by Jack_Golfer, 11 August 2013 - 12:20 PM.


#7 TheDart

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Posted 11 August 2013 - 08:31 PM

Jack,

 

There is always more to come because you get better and the feelings change as the technique improves and develops. No one stays on the alphabet forever. All is good at the time but there is no one answer for all moments in time. Know your Laws and Principles and go with the flow.

 

Your instincts are great with the ball sling for the pooch - swinging - certain grip required. Imagine using a 3 kg axe undercut on a vertical tree trunk. Different action, different grip - hitting. Probably, split base ball grip underhand. Both are needed in a normal round of golf and general thinking. Most good golfers go to hitting under tough conditions, except Greg Norman, the bane of my life. If he knew how to throttle back when the going got tough he would have won 8 Majors and put Golf and Australia into orbit newswise.

 

Also, try throwing with the left arm golf style and see your radius power in operation, footwork and ground forces.

 

Sustain the Lag and Aim it - then the Hinge Point.

 

Ask away Jack. "There is always something to improve". Ben Hogan.



#8 Devongolfer

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 01:14 AM

Jack,

 

I just noticed your new thread, and also that Dart was chipping in as well.  Great to see.

 

To follow on from your comments about lag and chipping, I am finding that the "drag the wet mop" idea works for me better than trying to feel the lag. 

 

If I try to feel the lag, sometimes I push at pp3 and throwaway or scoop, or sometimes I let go at pp3 and get no pressure, so the results are variable.

 

If I try to drag the wet mop, then I get less variability and sometimes I feel the lag as well, and sometimes I don't. 

 

The biggest difference in the full swing, for me, between a good one and a not so good one is the plane of the right shoulder.  Down plane, and I am likely to hit on full power.  Anything else, and I am on the way to something I won't like. 

 

One area that I have not started on is the plane line.  And I don't yet have a use for hinge actions.  I sort of understand them, but don't see what I would use them for, since angled hinging seems to just work. 

 

So, if anyone wants to comment on the use of hinge actions, I would be interested.  Also, I would be interested if anyone has a way of working on plane line without mirrors or cameras or laser pointers. 



#9 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 02:21 AM

Dart,
Thanks for your comments. Its been a while since I swang an axe at a tree, so I'm unsure as to the type of grip I would use. I think that I will tend to default to a slightly turned right hand grip? I would need to explore that action to see how it should be executed. Maybe I could experiment on some of the trees in the park accross the road...LOL.

Not very good at managing different hinges yet, need to concentrate on the action to get that right.

Will be interesting to try throwing the ball sling with the left arm. Not sure where the ball will end up with that swing.

Devon,
Glad to see you back mate, I thought we had lost you!
I'm not sure if one should be searching for ways to feel the lag. Rather, work on perfecting the swing execution and be aware of the lag when it presents itself on the pressure point. When I get the execution right, the club feels like a sling shot travelling through impact. I guess its what Dart calls "educated hands".

One thing I think is essential for that to happen and that is to use the lightest grip possible. The hands have got to be able to feel what is going on and you can't do that if you are clutching the club.

Edited by Jack_Golfer, 12 August 2013 - 02:25 AM.


#10 Toolish

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 11:38 AM

 

So, if anyone wants to comment on the use of hinge actions, I would be interested.  Also, I would be interested if anyone has a way of working on plane line without mirrors or cameras or laser pointers. 

 

Understanding hinge actions for shorter shots is invaluable.

 

Read the magazines and they talk about hooding the face, manipulating this or that to get a ship to run, then talk about pointing the face to the sky etc to get one to stop.

 

Once you understand hinges that is all they are talking about.  A HH chip will run, a VH chip will stop quicker.  A lot of people struggle to hit mid length bunker shots because their technique is pure VH, learn how to AH or HH a bunker shot and you can get it to run out nicely.

 

At the WGC last week the commentators were talking about the shaft exit angle on some of tigers wedge shots on the Friday and how it affects spin.  What they were talking about was what TGM calls hinge action.

 

On full swings I would suggest that most people with limited practise time will struggle to master different hinge actions and should stick to what works.



#11 BROWNMAN

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 03:05 PM

well said and described toolish,on that last paragraph,a lot of golfers use the different hinges,but dont know their respective names and most just dont care to learn the names imo,but as you said ,they stick to what they know and thats fine.

 

:)


I am NOT a teacher, coach.
Iam a LEARNER
What I post here is either from the book,OR what I have learnt from it.
You dont like it..fine....dont read it ....SIMPLE

#12 Devongolfer

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 04:35 PM

Thanks Toolish, using hinge actions for short shots makes sense, as does sticking to angled for full swings.  I am starting to focus on short game these days, having spent a year on my hitting action, so I will give these hinge actions a try and see what they give me.  I like the description of the bunker shots, particularly, since we are in contact with the sand much longer than we are with the ball. 

 

I also have a problem with "scooping" my 58 wedge and wonder now whether this is a bit of vertical hinging creeping in. 

 

I have found one use for this and forgot to mention it.  When I am trying for a low punch out from trees, I use a horizontal hinge action to keep the ball down. 

 

OK, I am motivated on this topic now, I will give all of this a proper go the next time I have a short game session. 


Edited by Devongolfer, 12 August 2013 - 04:42 PM.


#13 Devongolfer

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:10 PM

Jack,

 

 I have not gone away, but I got to a stage when the whole journey towards Hitting and the conversations with Dart sort of finished. 

 

My game is working in the terms that I set out to achieve, which is to strike the ball properly.  I was always a terrible ball striker for my handicap, but not any more. 

 

I am not a fantastic ball striker, of course, but I punch my weight.  And I find that when I lose it, it is invariably because I have drifted back into OTT, with the compensations that follow. 

 

If I stick to Essentials and Imperatives and keep the OTT move under control, I can get the ball round in a very satisfying way. 

 

The potential problem I found was that there are so many threads that are non TGM it is easy to get distracted and confused. So, when Ask The TGM Guys finished, and I had completed my conversion to Hitting, I sort of ran out of topics to read and talk about. 

 

Now that you have started another TGM thread, I'll keep watching, because there are still chunks of TGM I don't understand or use. 



#14 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:32 PM

Devon, snap! As a fellow engineer, working through TGM has been just the type of structured approach that I needed. Unless you can accurately define what it is you are trying to explain or execute, its highly unlikely you will achieve a desired result. How can you ever communicate about a subject if there is no common language? Classic example is here, where you are on the other side of the earth and yet you can participate in the conversation, just as easily as if you were here.

 

Looking forward to following your words on your short game development. As you will have read, I'm currently working in that area as well. I'm finding that it is a great way to refine my technique, particularly as I can practice on my front lawn and I don't have to go down to the club to do it. I have made some major discoveries recently and it has all been done by pitching on the front lawn :)



#15 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 12 August 2013 - 05:39 PM

Thanks Toolish, some times I wonder if those commentators know what they are talking about. Good to know its just dialect of TGM. Just like Chinglish is to English :D






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