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gur drop n nearest point of relief ?


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#1 RJP9.4

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 09:34 PM

Our ninth hole has a long greenside bunker that gets put out of play but nearest point of relief can be a gravel cart path .The other side of the cart path is a dry gully which is no great relief in fact it is almost a penalty.I dropped on the path and played off it as it was a better option but others want to head back to the fairway no closer to the hole but not nearest point of relief(cart path)as they say its a drop off the path as well .What do the rules folk say? i think a drop zone at each end of the bunker and you drop in the closer is a good option. 



#2 ColinCL

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 10:10 PM

You take relief in 2 stages.  First from the bunker.  If the  dropped ball comes to rest on the path, you would then proceed with the new situation.  Either play as it lies or take relief  etc.    You cannot go directly from the ball in bunker to relief from the path.  


Edited by ColinCL, 28 July 2013 - 10:11 PM.


#3 RulesDoc

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 10:12 PM

Maybe the idea of DZ's is the best solution to save players from a 2-step drop, that would be my suggestion as well.
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#4 OldBogey

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Posted 28 July 2013 - 11:06 PM

In the past, there has been a DZ marked on the approach side of that bunker.  Whoever declares it to be GUR should take a can of spray paint with them.

 

Wouldn't it be nice if they fixed the drainage?  But that would require some effort (time & money).



#5 RJP9.4

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 08:40 AM

Yes it would be nice but I doubt it will happen and drop zones don't always get done . My concern is that the drop off the cart path . The nearest point of relief is the gully and as its a tough spot to play from its really no relief (it's not a hazard) and you become the bad guy when you tell people thats where u should drop . That's why I play off the cart part . others think that because the gully isn't (good ) relief they should be aloud to go ten fifteen metres left or right to get on nice grass ( no nearer the hole ) instead of a couple of metres max straight back to the bank of the gully . Going sideways also takes the bunker out of their line to the pin . Could it become a local rule that if bunker is out there is a permanent drop zone at the end of the bunker where there is some grass between cart path and bunker ?

#6 OldBogey

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:21 AM

Yes it would be nice but I doubt it will happen and drop zones don't always get done . My concern is that the drop off the cart path . The nearest point of relief is the gully and as its a tough spot to play from its really no relief (it's not a hazard) and you become the bad guy when you tell people thats where u should drop . That's why I play off the cart part . others think that because the gully isn't (good ) relief they should be aloud to go ten fifteen metres left or right to get on nice grass ( no nearer the hole ) instead of a couple of metres max straight back to the bank of the gully . Going sideways also takes the bunker out of their line to the pin . Could it become a local rule that if bunker is out there is a permanent drop zone at the end of the bunker where there is some grass between cart path and bunker ?

 

That gully is, by definition, a water hazard.  So one could argue that they are not required to drop into a WH and hence the NPR would be on the green side of the path near the end of the bunker, whichever end is nearest to where the ball finished.



#7 RJP9.4

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 11:54 AM

the gully isn't staked and I don't believe it ever has been . I would luv to fill it with water and make it all lateral water hazard right from the corner all the way down but I think you would find me dangling from a tree if I did .

#8 AAA

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 04:42 PM

the gully isn't staked and I don't believe it ever has been . I would luv to fill it with water and make it all lateral water hazard right from the corner all the way down but I think you would find me dangling from a tree if I did .

Does the gully ever contain water, ie is it supposed to be a water course?

 

But DZ seems the best bet.



#9 RJP9.4

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 08:09 PM

it could it runs between ninth and tenth fairways  but it would only be casual water its doesnt have a good drain above it to feed it its deep you disappear when you are in it and tractors can drive in it to slash the grass.It would make a great water hazard if you cleared it and filled it.however,if you take your drop off the path you are on a slope with rugged lies and shrubbs and then you have to go over the bunker and stop the ball quickly on a downhill slope to get near the hole .So what wasnt such a bad shot that trickled into the bunker can become a drama to save par .

The bunker has drainage issues so a downpour friday night can put it out of play thats why i wonder if a local rule stipulating a drop zone at each end would be best because sometimes they cant get time to do them .I know it would be simple to fix the bunker but owners wont spend the money at moment.Plus it drains away in a few days so it isnt such a priority to them but is when you are in it for two(par5) and you want a birdie



#10 OldBogey

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:45 PM

By definition, that gully is a water hazard, none on that course are marked as WH.  It is a creek that has water in it when it rains.  It must have been a very long time (thousands of years?) since it was last full to the edges, but it's still clearly a water course.  Without any area in the bottom of the gully being specifically marked as a WH, the 'natural boundary' of it (the top of the bank) becomes the boundary of the WH.

 

The same applies to the creek beside the first fairway.

 

Read the definition of Water Hazard in the Rules of Golf.  Not having stakes to define its boundary does not change it from still being a water hazard.  e.g. the dam in front of the second green - no stakes but no-one would deny that it's a water hazard.



#11 RJP9.4

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Posted 31 July 2013 - 04:46 PM

No they wouldn't but that's cause it's full of water . Plus i have always felt that dam should have an oil line around it to mark the hazard . So do u prefer your lie when your inthe gully OB or do you penalise fellow competitors who do or ground their club ? either on nine or one ? I would argue it only ever has casual water in it I don't believe it is a creek it never has permanent water or even perennial water . Don't get me wrong I would love to see all the gullies called water hazards cleaned out and full of water would be great .however having said that I will read the definitions .

#12 rogolf

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 09:18 AM

No they wouldn't but that's cause it's full of water . Plus i have always felt that dam should have an oil line around it to mark the hazard . So do u prefer your lie when your inthe gully OB or do you penalise fellow competitors who do or ground their club ? either on nine or one ? I would argue it only ever has casual water in it I don't believe it is a creek it never has permanent water or even perennial water . Don't get me wrong I would love to see all the gullies called water hazards cleaned out and full of water would be great .however having said that I will read the definitions .

A water hazard does not have to have water in it to meet the definition of water hazard.



#13 RJP9.4

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 01:07 PM

Rogolf I accept that, and I can also accept you could define its start point as the top of the bank but no one plays it as a hazard . I am only reasonably new member and I asked the question on my first entry into it and was told it wasn't . There are some hazards marked by yellow and red pegs ( because I did it ) the dam ob mentions has steep sides so it's pretty clear but do think it should be marked by a line also . That's why I asked the question of ob on how does he play it . I now ask should we be playing it as a hazard because it fits the definition in the rules and therefore we are outside the rules of golf by not doing so or is it something a match committee decides and recommends .

#14 ColinCL

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 04:45 PM

If it meets the definition, you should play it as such.



#15 pom

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Posted 01 August 2013 - 05:32 PM

If it meets the definition, you should play it as such.

Easy to say and perfectly correct but as the match committee consider that it is not a Hazard they will undoubtedly penalise you for an incorrect drop if you take a drop out of the bottom of the gully at a point you consider to be point of entry.

 Trying to educate the match committee would possibly be a better way of solving this problem


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