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CAN OF WORMS: What is acceptable on ISG?


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#1 FairwayBomber

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 07:40 AM

###Note to readers- this thread was originally focused on a single issue but after some good dialogue between readers, its opened the doors to a much bigger discussion. Fairway Bomber ok'd me to change title and open this discussion up more. Please see my post below. Madam, Being born overseas, school life in australia 30yrs ago was sometimes difficult, especially when you look different and have a rather strange accent. Being one of 2 asian kids in my school, rest assured I have heard various taunts, stereotyping and attempts of humour at the expense of my ethnic background. Turn the other cheek, they are only words, it was just a joke ffs, harden up, et al were all kind advice given to me. I've been fortunate enough to have travelled and worked abroad but always looked forward to coming home, to Australia. However, the events in the last few weeks have brought back rather bad memories. From Sergio, to the 13yr old girl to Eddie, it reminded me that the colour of my skin continues to exclude me from being fully accepted in this country. I do not wish my daughter to accept that this type of flippant racial slurs, masked as an attempt of humour, is part and parcel of being a non-caucasion in Australia. I hope the moderators and owners of this site will take a strong stance on this issue and show that this behaviour is inexcusable and warrants an immediate ban. It is also my hope that others in this forum do not take this issue lightly. Apologies for the rambling, but I wanted to give some context before directing your attention to the quote (Link here) below. Saw this while checking out the topics on this site.

Was checking out this place,

http://www.auprogolfshop.com

The site is registered in Malaysia, looks pretty pro and its not on any of the web lists, but it seems the websites pop up so quickly that the online list of fake websites is out of date after a month or so anyway.

Selling Mizzy MP64’s for sub 400 bucks with no shipping, and also no extra cost for a shaft upgrade…

S’pose if it’s too good to be true….but its such a shame, just got back from the range trialing these out. Phwoar …they have the nicest sweet spot.

Fake as, the prices alone tell you that.But there are also plenty of Red Flags and tell tales if you look closely.

comes with free years supply of “fly rice”

these guys are brining **** loads in from CHINA!!

Golf is only a game…Yeah right who are you kidding?


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#2 Tonk

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 09:12 AM

100% behind you FB. Well written post and very important perspective that people need to be made aware of. It's become too accepted and passable as humour without any thought to the effect it has on the race/culture concerned.

#3 OldBogey

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 09:59 AM

FB, I fully agree that one's ethnicity is no reason nor justification for any form of insult. But in the context of Asian marketeers blatantly lying to us Australians (and anybody else) about the validity and true value of their products, they leave themselves open for any form of retaliatory insult that can be delivered in their direction. Of course, the term "Australian" does not only mean those of Anglo-Saxon descent, but all who have Australian citizenship irrespective of their ethnicity. That includes you. The operators of the referenced web site are targeting us, hoping we are too stupid to doubt them. Do you think for one moment that if you placed an order with them, they would recognise that your name is of Chinese extraction and they would confess that their products are just **** and they wouldn't take your money? Any insult or other derogatory remark directed at them is NOT an insult directed at you, unless you are also involved with their marketing strategies. Just because they are operating in Malaysia does not absolutely ensure they are Asian. But I'd bet they eat rice at times no matter where they may have been born. So, yes FB, harden up and don't take it all so personally. It was directed at what they do, not who their (or your) ancestors were.

#4 GhettoGolfer

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 10:21 AM

Fairway Bomber. Firstly, I have met Dave and played a round of golf when he last visited Melbourne. He works with disadvantaged youths in our society of ALL socio-economic backgrounds including creed. He is not racist in the slightest, and can attest to that. Ever called a mate a wog? A skippy? How is that different to being referred to as fly rice, even if it wasn't directed at you? Aussie humour is self deprecating - look at Wog Boy, Acropolis Now, The Castle and vairous comedians Hung Le, Anh Do, Akmal Saleh - all point out peculiarities within our cultures that make for a humouros subtext to tell funny stories. And that is all there is to it. Nothing more nothing less. Dude I have been here since '78 - copped it sweet for many a year and still do to some extent. As soon as you pull the race card, it also points out that you see yourself as something other than Australian, and empowers those who seek to undermine your position. Mads - I think that you have seen enough of Dave's posts to know the man behind the handle and should be able to address this with your usual style and flair?

#5 Smergen

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 06:28 PM

I might be missing something, but I'm still trying to work out what in Dave's post was racist? All I can see is that he is he's taking the mick out of the way some Asians pronounce English words. The same way as I give stick to Kiwi/DJ about the "thun buts of munt fulling in their buskits" and that on Fridays do they order "fush an chups for sux bucks at the shop". Or when the locals of pretty much every country I ever went to laughed at me when I tried to speak their native tongue ordering chicken or asking where the dunny was. But I'm happy to stand corrected if I've misinterpreted something.

#6 CaNadiAn MiCk

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 06:41 PM

FB. I'll have a read and think before a reply as it is a very sensitive topic. Happy to take it offline as well?

#7 Deege

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 09:18 PM

Geez, I am kind of in FB's camp here. You can hang it on someone without using statements that offend on the basis of race. The "harden up" attitude when someone complains about being offended really shits me. It's not PC for someone to say that they are offended. It can create a really hostile environment. Now I am not making comment on what the outcome should be of FB's complaint, but if he is genuinely offended or hurt by the comment he has a right to bring it up and have it considered without being shouted down. If we had PMs available he might choose to do it that way, but we don't. Now I am sure that FB will abide by the process that Madam responds to and if Madam decides after whatever process I am sure that FB will abide by and respect the outcome. But this is exactly why people (including me sometimes) feel that they can't ever make a comment about something that they feel has gone too far or which is offensive. Because they get labelled as a whinger and weak and are made to feel like they aren't welcome if they are going to be so sensitive. /rant

#8 OldBogey

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 09:41 PM

Deege, I agree that everyone has the right to feel offended by whatever might cause that feeling. However, taking offence at a reference to something Asian is in no way a personal attack on anyone in particular. Around half the world's population is 'asian', consisting of many races. That would be akin to me saying something derogatory about my wife and you taking offence at it because you are also female. By all means feel offended if someone insults you, or even your family. But to personally take offence because you feel affinity with one half of something is being a bit precious.

#9 Tolmij

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 09:51 PM

Been in Australia since 1981, my pommie accent had no where to hide and I was given heaps from day one to the extent that on my second day in Australia after asking someone for directions I was told to piss of back we don't want you here. My reaction could have been anger or any number of degrees Inbetween but I chose to thank him for his assistance and went on my way. It does not matter what you do or say there will always be intolerance its how we handle it that defines us. Reading the OP and looking back over the disputed post. I agree with OB I cannot se any racial vilification in that, there is far worse posted on ISG and we just discuss it between ourselves and sometimes agree to dissagree. If we go round looking for insults where none exist, or if we are asking for bans for this type of post, ISG would soon have very few members. Whilst I in no way support racial intolerance we have to be careful that we are not taking political correctness too far.The one example I came across last year was in America where a macdonals employee who was African American sued a patron when he asked him for a black coffee, is this what we realy want our country to be. we all need to pull our heads in a little and look at some of these things in context.

#10 Deege

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 09:59 PM

Deege, I agree that everyone has the right to feel offended by whatever might cause that feeling.

However, taking offence at a reference to something Asian is in no way a personal attack on anyone in particular. Around half the world’s population is ‘asian’, consisting of many races. That would be akin to me saying something derogatory about my wife and you taking offence at it because you are also female.

By all means feel offended if someone insults you, or even your family. But to personally take offence because you feel affinity with one half of something is being a bit precious.

OB, I hope I am misunderstanding you, but are you suggesting that it is unreasonable for someone to get offended unless it is a personal insult directed at that person or their family? That would preclude anyone being insulted by anything demeaning said about gender, sexuality or race so long as it wasn't personally directed. Is that your position?

#11 wizard_of_oz

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 10:03 PM

FB has a right to expressing the way he feels. It was a joke that had racial stereotyping and undertones to it, even though, that's what it was, simply a joke. It's the same as Sergio recently making a comment about fried chicken and offended the African American community, regardless that it was a joke (made in poor taste) or that it was not a direct reference to any of them. Moral of the story is this: we are a diverse group of ethnicity and origin on ISG and some awareness needs to be had that remarks with racial undertones need to be kept in check.

#12 OldBogey

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 10:37 PM

Deege, I agree that everyone has the right to feel offended by whatever might cause that feeling.

However, taking offence at a reference to something Asian is in no way a personal attack on anyone in particular. Around half the world’s population is ‘asian’, consisting of many races. That would be akin to me saying something derogatory about my wife and you taking offence at it because you are also female.

By all means feel offended if someone insults you, or even your family. But to personally take offence because you feel affinity with one half of something is being a bit precious.

OB, I hope I am misunderstanding you, but are you suggesting that it is unreasonable for someone to get offended unless it is a personal insult directed at that person or their family? That would preclude anyone being insulted by anything demeaning said about gender, sexuality or race so long as it wasn’t personally directed. Is that your position?

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Sweeping generalisations should not be taken personally, although the context in which any statement is made is of substantial relevance as to whether one might feel offended. For example, take comedians. Much of what they say is usually very critical of a particular race, sex, age group, etc. But audience members usually find such things funny as that was the intention, not a personal slur on any one of them. Although some comedians do pick on individual audience members 'for a laugh'.

#13 Deege

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 10:51 PM

I don't think you answered my question, but I infer that the answer is that you do think that it is unreasonable for someone to get offended by general statements which are not directed at them personally (or their family). I personally think that it is entirely reasonable for people to get offended by general statements which are not directed at them personally, for example: * a forum post demeaning women generally * a forum post using offensive language directed at someone's race, religion or sexuality * a statement implying that some race, gender, religion or sexuality should be equated with some negative characteristic Racism etc does not need to be personally directed to be offensive (either to people within the defined class or those outside of it).

#14 Tolmij

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:03 PM

In the UK they are always making jokes about each other, there are thousands of Irish English Scottish jokes, no one takes offence they just turn it found against the others in the joke, every has a laugh, there is nothing personal we all took the Mickey out of the difference between us. there is no difference between this and the OP, I am still with OB. Let's look how far this can go, Italians are pasta eaters, Chinese and Asians are rice eaters, Australians are crap food eaters, all these could be racist. Do we now want our government to issue orders. When talking about Asians these words cannot be used Englishmen cannot be called poms, do not make comments about a kiwi accent, in fact do not call them kiwis. Common sense has to be used or we are going to tie ourselves up in so much red tape we will need permission to speak. If you think racial slurs are bad, just wait untill you get old, I could tell you some tales of how I am treated, but people will be people, we will never change them. Me I just get on with life and let those I consider ignorant do the same, they always get what they deserve eventually

#15 OldBogey

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Posted 07 June 2013 - 11:05 PM

Deege, I wouldn't say "is unreasonable". I would say that it "can be" or "might be", depending on the circumstances. The examples you gave may well be offensive to some, depending on the context and depending on what was actually said.




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