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Pro v Amateur Trajectory
Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:44 AM
Posted 20 December 2012 - 06:06 AM
Posted 20 December 2012 - 07:59 AM
Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:30 AM
Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:27 PM
Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:19 PM
Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:24 PM
Posted 20 December 2012 - 11:35 PM
+1, Great post Razaar :)
You are wrong mate. The feet and legs power the pivot which powers the shoulders which swing the arms to which the club is attached. The hands grip the club so they are part of the club. It is how we use the body that gets the clubhead on the ball that gets the result.
The man who hits at the ball rather than through it has no sense of rhythm.
Secrets of the Master – The Best of Bobby Jones
Posted 21 December 2012 - 02:11 AM
Yes mate, the bottom line is technique which relates to how we use our body. The limbs are included in body. I know what you mean, it is just that the contact that these pros get originates in the feet and explodes in the clubhead collision with the pill. If you have noticed Davis Love's walk, there is a real bounce from the balls of his feet and instep. This is the bounce that these guys feel during the swing only that it is directed laterally by the same foot muscles. It has been described as the ground moving under the feet during weight shift.
Was that directed at me Raz?
Posted 21 December 2012 - 02:54 AM
Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:50 AM
Auh angle of attack it does not effect the ball compression either. Forward lean does not effect ball compression either. Forward lean nor angle of attack changes the amount of spin rate either. It can change the axis tilt of the ball although it does not change the amount of spin produce. All the angle of attack does is it can effect the direction of flight. Although if the Vertical plane and vertical face match this counsels out the effects of the angle of attack you get square delivery of speed at the ball. Tour tour players already have good compression, the squarer the collision the more energy is imparted on the ball. The straighter the ball travels the further it goes. The aim is for a perfect horizontal spin axis. Tsdean could got an improve his angle of attack and I bet any money he will not get the same trajectory as a tour player does. This explains how to get optimal distance and ball flight Club dynamics
I’d love to hear you describe how i am “wrong” about reduced spin loft and compression.
You’ll get no argument from me about efficient sequencing resulting in increased club head speed…. but that’s not what the OP was inquiring about.
The query was around ‘pro’ trajectory – i.e. lower with the short irons, greater distance for any given club versus an amateur with similar club head speed, etc.
and the answer to that is almost purely swing mechanics and in particular, hand path… you can have the greatest sequencing on earth, light up every kinetic link measuring device on the planet and have elite level club head speed at impact.. but if your angle of attack is steep, you ain’t getting ‘pro’ ball flight.. and the pros will hit it further than you.
The low point of the hands in the swings of pros happens well before impact (around about when they pass the rear leg from a front on view)... by the time the club head hits the ball, the hands are travelling up… this results in a reduction in attack angle, which combined with forward shaft lean, in turn results in less spin loft for any given club… in other words, less ‘glancing’ blow… or more ‘flush’ contact… or higher smash factor… whatever you choose to call it.
So i’m keen to hear how i am “wrong”... and feel free to use something a little more tangible than the bounce in Davis Love’s walk.
Posted 21 December 2012 - 03:58 AM
Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:29 AM
You obviously weren't following Geoff Ogilvy? Followed him at an Aussie Open once, long irons hit into orbit. Amazing to watch.
Just came back from watching the PGA at Coolumn. This is the first time I’ve really seen touring pro’s hit golf balls.I was blown away at how different their ball flight is from most amature’s.
I currently play off a 3HC and thought I hit the ball well. But one thing I noticed was how low and penetrating they hit it.
Even how the ball falls out of the air looks different.
Their ball flight zooms off at a very low trajectory(especially wedges) and seems to climb in the air and fall left or right.
My flight is much higher initially and has a constant curvature to it right from the outset.
This really made me think Im not swinging the club entirely correct.??
Is it a simple case of striving for more shaft lean and put more backspin on the ball?
I tried striving for more shaft lean but i run out of right arm very fast and hit the ball weak and right.
Anyhow, not sure if im chasing my tail here and getting to caught up in somthing not overly important or is it an indication my swing isnt all what i thought it was?..
Posted 21 December 2012 - 04:48 AM
Auh no angle of attack has nothing to do with club dynamics. The speed direction of the club head is heading at collision for collision dynamics. This is an entriely different kettle of fish. Angle attack has no effect on angular speed (club release speed) which produces ball compression. TM can't even measure ball compression or club release speed. Thats a proven fact. Dynamic loft will have a greater influence than attack angle in determining the launch angle of a shot. a) The initial launch angle of the ball always falls between the dynamic loft and attack angle at impact. b) for drivers, that dynamic loft normally accounts for about 85% of the launch angle, while attack angle accounts for the remaining 15%. For irons, the ratio is around 75% dynamic loft and 25% attack angle.For example, a 10° launch angle would result from a ironshot where the attack angle is -5 degrees and the Dynamic Loft is +15 degrees (15 * 75% plus -5 * 25% equals 10). That spin loft (the difference between angle of attack and dynamic loft; SPINLOFT = DYNAMIC LOFT – ANGLE OF ATTACK) remains virtually constant for a particular golfer, given club loft and Club SPEED, No Matter what the Attack Angle is. This means the myth that “hitting down on the ball creates more spin” is not true. For example, Moving the ball back in the stance generally creates a more negative attack angle, but the dynamic loft will be offset by a similar amount, resulting in an unchanged spin loft and thereby unchanged spin rate.
you contradict yourself…
angle of attack doesn’t affect compression… then… the squarer the collision, the more energy is imparted on the ball.
which one is it?
i’ll give you a clue….
the steeper the angle of attack for any given club, the greater the spin loft…. as in… the less square the contact.
Posted 21 December 2012 - 05:28 AM
Posted 21 December 2012 - 05:47 AM
Unlike you my friend,I cant wait to find out more re K/link from Zen,but each to their own.It is his job,and there is so much he can share with us. Give the man credit,he does share so much here. cheers
however, i am proud of you Zen… a whole post without mentioning the kinetic link.
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