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HOMER KELLY


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#1 BROWNMAN

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Posted 13 December 2012 - 07:05 PM

This thread is for people to put their veiws on Homer so they dont take up space on other peoples posts,

#2 Devongolfer

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:05 AM

Well said, Brownman, sorry your other thread got lost. Everything I know about HK comes from his biography, I gave my copy to my club pro in the hope of intriguing him enough to get him into TGM. So far, no luck. HK was a techie, nerdy, obsessive type of guy. A modern equivalent might be someone like Dave Pelz (no offense to DP). Technically oriented people (count me as one as well) want to understand how things work, and then how to improve how they work. There was another book, written by a physics professor in the UK, around the same time as TGM. But that only looked at the physics of a 2 lever action. TGM is a masterpiece, IMO. The idea of trying to analyse and document all the different ways of playing is a huge idea, virtually every other book on golf is all about "my way" or "the way" or "the secret". IMO it also contains some very useful ideas that I have not seen anywhere else: The notion that lag stresses the club shaft and that hitting a ball with a pre-stressed shaft means that the clubhead loses less speed between impact and separation thereby increasing ball speed is one. Another is the whole idea of the Computer (our brains) and the idea that the Computer will compensate for flaws is huge. It is so easy to get totally confused when you are working on your game, but if you have the idea that what you see might actually be a compensation for some earlier flaw, you can often make a much better diagnosis. HK's ideal of "an uncompensated swing" is right on the money. When I see people picking at bits of TGM, finding fault and questioning this or that, it frustrates me. There is no other body of work to compare to TGM, so I simply do not understand why anyone who is serious about contributing further to the understanding of the game does not start from TGM as a foundation and use TGM language. TGM leaves scope for further advances in understanding, so there is no need to start again with different language. If someone has a brilliant insight, there is no need to piss on TGM, they can more easily explain their brilliant idea and get people to understand if they use the TGM framework to explain it, IMO. When you look at all the other pro's and teaching resources, they are all arguing with each other. Even on ISG, argue argue argue. Getting 3 teaching pro's to agree on anything seems almost impossible these days, and that is just annoying if you are trying to learn how to play. TGM stands alone among all of the arguing and BS. That makes HK's work a major contribution to the game, again IMO.

#3 Stinkler

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:38 AM

WELL I'LL BE DAMNED, A SENSIBLE, INTELLIGENT, WELL WRITTEN POST WITHOUT PREJUDICE! HOW NICE TO SEE :)

#4 BROWNMAN

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 05:51 AM

Ditto,Stinkler Ditto

#5 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 14 December 2012 - 06:46 AM

Lots more on his own thread. One of the few worth reading.

#6 TheDart

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 07:26 AM

Amen. I wish I had half the wit to say that. I am going to steal every bit of it. It is like seeing why I live. I hope there are more like him. Jeez - I hope he gets to +6.

#7 chinaalan

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 10:28 PM

I will even have another go at trying to understand this. Great post!!

#8 Jack_Golfer

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 01:22 AM

Another is the whole idea of the Computer (our brains) and the idea that the Computer will compensate for flaws is huge. It is so easy to get totally confused when you are working on your game, but if you have the idea that what you see might actually be a compensation for some earlier flaw, you can often make a much better diagnosis. HK’s ideal of “an uncompensated swing” is right on the money.

Trying to get rid of ingrained compensation habits keeps my golf coach in a comfortable life style. Years of practice and playing to the compensation swing is a hard thing to unlearn but the only way forward.

#9 TheDart

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:45 AM

The old swing may not be so bad - at least it is familiar. The new one will give greater eventual satisfaction but the old one is always there in case things go temporarily wrong. I have a sliding scale of ten swing/hits depending on daily form. They say what are you thinking of. I say I am waiting for a shot that I can hit right now.

#10 TheDart

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 06:59 AM

I will even have another go at trying to understand this. Great post!!

Mate, It is a series of understandings - ad infinitum. With TGM at least you have a blue print and options galore.

#11 OldMaverick

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 11:15 PM

'tis a thrice-told tale, eh, Dart?

#12 TheDart

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:19 PM

Itchy trigger finger Loren.

#13 Stinkler

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 05:37 PM

JUST LIKE THE OLD DAYS HEY, DARTY AND LOREN CHATTING! WOW, I'VE MISSED HANGING HERE WITH YOU GUYS, GOOD MEMORIES INDEED. :)

#14 Ignoramus

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Posted 17 December 2012 - 09:45 PM

Would HK be a regular contributor in golf forums if they existed in his days. If he did I wonder what his posts would read like.

#15 Zenstb

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 03:04 AM

Would HK be a regular contributor in golf forums if they existed in his days. If he did I wonder what his posts would read like.

The man who hits at the ball rather than through it has no sense of rhythm.
Secrets of the Master – The Best of Bobby Jones

You don't get it, The book is very well organised in a file system we all understand. If you can count to 12 and understand the alphabet ABCD you can easily understand the format of the book. Homer set the book out in an organised format. He created a language which is so that when everyone is referring to a certain style every one was using the same lingo and on the same page. 6-m-1 pretty easy to understand. Chapter 6 section M - 1st paragraph. 6-m-2 Chapter 6 section M paragraph 2. The golf swing is broken up into components and zones. You want to work out the components of a certain swing you can look up the check list then go back through the book and see all the components required for a certain swing style. Homer would write in a way we could all understand first he would recommend to get a book so you can follow, then he would quote a section then explain what it means. It's the best written golf instruction book I have read it's put in a format that when Loren, Dart speak I understand or any other TGMer understand exactly what they are talking about. I can say to any instructor around the world doing TGM , what are you working on? 6-m-1, I know exactly what they are working on.

#16 Ignoramus

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 04:37 AM

I guess we will never know, my interpretation of his biography is that he was a secretive type. He may have said nothing and jotted down points that he decided were important.

#17 Zenstb

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:04 AM

I guess we will never know, my interpretation of his biography is that he was a secretive type. He may have said nothing and jotted down points that he decided were important.

The man who hits at the ball rather than through it has no sense of rhythm.
Secrets of the Master – The Best of Bobby Jones

Secretive, how can a man be deemed secretive when he writes a book on his work to share with the rest of the world, he even took it to the US PGA to share his ideas. He trained up PGA memeber to pass on his teachings to others. He creates a certifications which are recongised by the PGA for coaches to be certifed and learn about his work. He even recorded his ideas and work with a tape recorder. Razzar my advice is get the book and read it. If you love learning about golf swing mechanics this book will bring you so much joy there is a life time of learning from it. Edwin, S&T, leadbetter, O'Grady, Mahatton, Foleys etc all these guys got their ideas from homers work.

#18 Ignoramus

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:55 AM

Zen I'm a fan of Abe Mitchell. His books are a one stop shop for me. I really don't need TGM, Abe has given me a blue print which I fully understand. I have no doubt that those who follow TGM feel the same way about H K as I do about Abe Mitchell. The difference is that HK would have read AM whereas Mitchell would have been influenced by players he played with and against. My interest is in the history of golf, the swing side of it is about me. The interesting thing about the golf swing is that the same swing issues exist today that existed in the early part of the 19th century, and will most likely be the same issues 100 years into the future.

#19 BROWNMAN

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 06:55 PM

Zen
I’m a fan of Abe Mitchell. His books are a one stop shop for me. I really don’t need TGM, Abe has given me a blue print which I fully understand.
I have no doubt that those who follow TGM feel the same way about H K as I do about Abe Mitchell. The difference is that HK would have read AM whereas Mitchell would have been influenced by players he played with and against.
My interest is in the history of golf, the swing side of it is about me. The interesting thing about the golf swing is that the same swing issues exist today that existed in the early part of the 19th century, and will most likely be the same issues 100 years into the future.

The man who hits at the ball rather than through it has no sense of rhythm.
Secrets of the Master – The Best of Bobby Jones

Yes Razaar,everything is the same and has been and will be fundamentally the same for years to come. All that homer did was to catagorise it and put it into componant form for THOSE people that want to learn and understand reasons that golf ball did what it did. I too had a look at Abe Mitchell,I think I got a book somewhere,I got it because you spoke well of him,I didnt say anything detrimental of his style or fob his style off........I kept my mind OPEN. Mate all the best for Christmas and Happy new year to you and your family..........cheers from the brownman

#20 TheDart

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Posted 18 December 2012 - 07:31 PM

razaar, Homer wrote a monthly news letter talking about his work. Others contributed making it an absolute must read to we early students. His 7 changes to his original were by way of explanation. His first book was 150 pages, his last was 250. He had an investigative mind. He would look for something he did not understand, knowing that when he did he would get to the bottom of the problem. That is why he was the sign off man for Boeing's B52 hydraulics without an engineering degree. When he was told by his boss to learn golf so as to play with the customers he had lessons from 5 different teachers in an effort to find someone who could explain. One day he shot 76 on a good course and asked his coaches why he did so well. They gave various answers that he could not think with and finally concluded that Clubhead Lag was the reason. Clubhead Lag became his secret. He called it simple, elusive, indispensable, without substitute or compensation, and always present. It can be any one or any combination Pressure Points selected to sense Clubhead Acceleration rate and direction. Others have called it clubhead feel or grip pressure. I find Homer's way helpful. I find every word spoken or written about anything helpful because they give a little more colour to the picture. Even the same words at different times will do the same job. The brighter and clearer the picture the easier I can explain it to more types of people. Ease seems to work faster.




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