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loose impediments with dirt attached


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#1 dizzy1372662100

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 10:41 AM

We cannot move dirt or sand except on the green. It would appear to me that at least 50% of loose impediments will probably have specks of dirt attached to them, especially after rain. I presume that moving these loose impediments with specks of dirt or sand attached is a breach of the rules, but I never see players checking their loose impediments for dirt specks.How come ?

#2 RulesDoc

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:26 PM

Leaves or a pine cones with specks of sand or dirt are of course not a problem, only sand and dirt in their "own right". The Rules are not silly :-)

#3 clarhamp

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 08:50 PM

We cannot move dirt or sand except on the green. It would appear to me that at least 50% of loose impediments will probably have specks of dirt attached to them, especially after rain. I presume that moving these loose impediments with specks of dirt or sand attached is a breach of the rules, but I never see players checking their loose impediments for dirt specks.How come ?

Compacted soil such as clods of earth or aeration plugs are LI's. See D 23/12 and 23/13. Lots of dirt in those :-)

#4 dizzy1372662100

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:43 AM

Rulesdoc , what about leaves or pine cones with something more than just a few specks of dirt on them, say a fine layer of adhering sand or even a modest layer of adhering dirt sitting on a leaf.Can we move these loose impediments? I am basically thinking about areas after rain where silt is washed onto leaves or sticks. sometimes you will get just a small band of silt , sometimes it is more significant and is very obvious. How does one assess if a loose impediment can be moved when there is some amount of dirt attached to it ?

#5 AAA

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Posted 06 December 2012 - 09:58 AM

The right to move a specific loose impediment is paramount unless the side effect is to improve his lie.

#6 clarhamp

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 12:29 PM

The right to move a specific loose impediment is paramount unless the side effect is to improve his lie.

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Reference? “Except when both the loose impediment and the ball lie in or touch the same hazard, any loose impediment may be removed without penalty. If the ball lies anywhere other than on the putting green and the removal of a loose impediment by the player causes the ball to move, Rule 18-2a applies. “ If a ball were in a sandy or loose dirt area with a few pebbles near the ball the pebbles should be removed individually and not brushed aside with hand or cap (and in the process moving sand or dirt).

#7 RulesDoc

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Posted 08 December 2012 - 01:12 PM

Loose impediments can be removed by any means, but the player may not improve his lie. The player can use his cap as long as nothing is improved, the Rules don't say anywhere that loose impediments must be removed one by one.

#8 clarhamp

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 12:15 PM

Loose impediments can be removed by any means, but the player may not improve his lie. The player can use his cap as long as nothing is improved, the Rules don’t say anywhere that loose impediments must be removed one by one.

Hit it where they mow

Agree. However, I said “should” (which, for others, is golf speak for recommend). To avoid confusion, there is no penalty for removing a loose impediment and improving the lie! In fact many (?most) LI's are removed to improve the lie. What we are both saying is that if, in the act of removing a loose impediment, too much dirt is removed and that improves the lie, there is a R 13-2 infraction. I was trying to recommend a procedure for avoiding the problem.




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