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Raking a trap


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#1 Deege

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:28 AM

I was having a nightmare of a round on the weekend and had to pull the rule book out more than once. Mostly my own fault as being relatively newly returned to the game I can brain fade enough to do things that I don't realise are illegal until someone points it out. In this case I was in a greenside bunker. The bunker was kidney-shaped and my ball was in the front, and the rake was in the back "lobe" of the bunker. Upon getting in, I went into the back part of the bunker and picked up the rake to bring it closer to where I was going to play my shot from. On the way to the front of the bunker (before I played my shot) I raked my own footmarks and those of the silly joker who had been in before me and who had not raked up after himself. I stopped raking well short of where my ball was lying, played the shot out of the bunker and then raked the rest of it. Someone raised that I might have to penalise myself for raking the bunker prior to playing my shot. We referred to Rule 13-4 which allows raking the hazard but were divided as to the meaning of the phrase "provided... nothing is done to breach rule 13-2 with respect to the next stroke". Some of our group felt that notwithstanding that I hadn't raked anywhere near where my ball was, if I had not managed to get the ball out of the bunker on the first shot, I might have been considered to have improved my lie with respect to the next shot. We figured it was a moot point as I clearly wasn't trying to improve my current lie and the ball was well out and never went near the area I had raked, but can someone shed any light on whether our interpretation was the correct one?

#2 Shimonko

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:04 AM

As you mentioned, "nothing is done to breach rule 13-2 with respect to the next stroke". If you didn't get the ball out on first attempt and it lands in the smoothed area, it doesn't matter as the next stroke has already been had.

#3 simonsez

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:04 AM

People who look to penalise their fellow competitors really need to have a much better understanding of the rules before mouthing off I'd have thought.You did nothing wrong and were certainly not subject to a penalty.The recent rule change was a very good one and was really just common sense imho.

#4 OldBogey

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:05 AM

Agree with you this time, Steb. But it's interesting to note that some people's interpretation of "next" is different to others'. To me, "next" means the first occurrence of whatever it is that happens after now. So, this being a monday, next Saturday occurs in 5 days. But to some people, that day is "this Saturday" and "next Saturday" happens a week later. Golf Australia, in specifying when one's handicap anchor no longer applies after expiration of 12 months, say it applies to the player's "next" round, being two after the expiration. In fact their programming is wrong and it isn't disregarded until the third round after expiry, but that's another issue.

#5 pom

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:15 AM

I must admit to being under the impression that if the ball failed to get out & landed in the area you had just raked, that is a penalty. But I have been known to be wrong, Once or twice!

#6 OldBogey

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:35 AM

Wasn't that one of the changes at the last revision? You can now fix up the bunker provided you don't affect the play of your next stroke.

#7 pom

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:59 AM

Cannot say that I have ever seen this Happen.And under the last revision you mention, I agree with Stebs comment, but it does depend on what you consider to be the " next " shot.

#8 OldBogey

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:19 AM

My dictionary defines "next" as nearest. So it can't be the one after that.

#9 pom

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:29 AM

In the English language anything is possible. :-)

#10 RulesDoc

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:37 AM

@Pom, "Next" in Rules lingo is in this case the next stroke and nothing else. If more than the next stroke is to be considered the word "subsequent" is used. That's the difference between the old D.13-4/38 using subsequent and the current wording saying next.

#11 Deege

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:36 PM

Okay, if I am to understand the distinction here, the "next" stroke referred to is actually the one I am about to play, not the one after that (as I had thought). So you can rake as long as you don't improve your lie for your current shot, and it makes no difference what happens to the shot after that.

#12 vinum_coupe

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:39 PM

I would have thought that raking a bunker before playing could be seen as providing an unfair advantage by helping you know the consistency of the sand. Sure you can and do use your feet for this. That would have been my gut feel.

#13 pegasus2357

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:02 PM

I would have thought that raking a bunker before playing could be seen as providing an unfair advantage by helping you know the consistency of the sand.

Sure you can and do use your feet for this.

That would have been my gut feel.

…..

This might help http://www.usga.org/...sion-13/#13-4/9

#14 vinum_coupe

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:28 PM

Thanks Peg. I had just spent 30 minutes reading my rule book (kept getting side tracked looking at other rules) That link is far easier to read. 13-4/9 Player Creates and Smoothes Footprints in Bunker Prior to Making Stroke Q.A player's ball lies in a bunker and a rake has been left in another part of the bunker. Prior to making his stroke in the bunker, the player retrieves the rake. Having lifted the rake, the player smoothes the footprints that he has just created, and some others in the process. What is the ruling? A.There is no penalty provided the smoothing was done for the sole purpose of caring for the course and nothing was done to breach Rule 13-2 in relation to the player's next stroke (see Exception 2 to Rule 13-4). If, however, a player is regularly creating and smoothing footprints close to his ball prior to making strokes from bunkers, it would be appropriate to question the player about the purpose of the smoothing. In such circumstances, the smoothing might be for the purpose of gaining knowledge of the condition of the bunker rather than being for the sole purpose of caring for the course. If so, the player would be in breach of Rule 13-4a for testing the condition of the hazard. (New)

#15 Deege

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 09:47 PM

Well I will make sure not to regularly resort to this sort of behaviour, lest I be questioned about the purpose of my smoothing!

#16 SnapHooker

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:30 AM

Glad this was brought up. I got questioned on exactly this today and when bringing up the actual rules didn't satisfy my partner, this thread did.




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