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Course unplayable


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#1 AlisonC

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 02:36 PM

It's 4.00am, lying awake mulling over events of the last few days, and still feeling quite aggrieved. So here's the story. Saturday, second day of a significant trophy event in the clubs calendar, and everyone who played considers the course to have been unplayable, but only one committee member present and he was unwilling to take a decision, so play went ahead. We had bunkers full of water - no where to take a drop, likewise with some fairways. One fairway had so much casual water that in taking relief a player would have had to return to the raised Tee, and in doing so would have most likely hit to the point where they were taking relief from, so we played out of it. In attempting to retrieve a ball on one fairway I was up to my ankles in water - note that was on the fairway. One green had so much water flowing over it that it was virtually impossible to play, but we tried. Why so upset ? After the first day I was well in contention, and had spent a whole afternoon during the week at a driving range practising my chipping and putting - my weak spots. Even watched a few videos on Youtube on chipping technique. Yesterday spoke with a couple of members of the match committee, response was shrugged shoulders and a comment that can't do anything now as results have been announced, which hasn't helped my demeanor at all. As it is now a "done deal", for future reference what options does a player have in these circumstances ? If you don't play you are DQ'd from the comp - three day event, and if you do you know it's most probably going to be a disaster. If enough players had been in agreement could they have made a decision on the course?

#2 RulesDoc

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 02:44 PM

No. It's up to the Committee to declare a round null and void, to declare some holes out of play, to make appropriate Local Rules. If they are not up to their job, the players are really scr****. The Committee should be told how to act properly or be told to let others take over after this tournament. What a pity, what a mess.

#3 AlisonC

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:51 PM

In my experience committee members tend to fall into two groups - those who think they were elected because of their superior intellect, skills and knowledge base. Whereas other more-realistic committee members know that they are there by default. No one else wanted the job, so they are there under partial duress, as in "someone had better do it". Nowadays finding good committee members who are prepared to put in the hard yards is no mean feat. Perhaps it's time for the "Golf Rules" to reflect this and give more rights to the players in situations like above, as I suspect the situation is going to get worse rather than better.

#4 Tolmij

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:12 PM

AlisonC Committee members do fall into two categories the big notes and the don't want to be there. Our own club has suffered many decisions that belong in a comedy programme but what can we do, when we tried to remove our committee the meeting was crowded with all their mates. Our course has been played in unplayable conditions and we found there was nothing we could do about it. I agree it's about time more decision making was given to members. I can't see how these decisions are covered by the golf rules,I would have thought the clubs charter was the place to address these items. I can see how it works with international tournaments but it is a bit over the top for club comps. The suggestion of different level of rules for pros and amateurs has been raised before and I still think it has merit especially in situations such as this.

#5 xmaggiex

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 09:06 PM

I hear you alison, my view is if we had only one club/district committee of combination of men and woman with strong collaboration ethics it would improve as surely someone would be knowledgable enought to sort it.. Could the local district provide Recommendations in Certain Situations? No...your right....futile

#6 delicate1

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:44 PM

suggest if you don't agree with the current committee ,grow a set an nominate for a position on the committee ,then next time someone else will be posting on a forum complaining about a decision of yours ,as well as tarnishing your good reputation to all and sundry behind your back . Being on a committee or a rules official is a thankless task where all your ever get is complaints against whatever decisions you make . Didn't everyone else have to play under the same conditions as you ? How do you know they didn't spend all week practicing too ? I just got beaten in the club championships by two strokes on the weekend by a better player ,no excuses , and I've spent 17 years practicing ,but on the day wasn't good enough.

#7 Radar

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 11:46 PM

Rules Doc When you say its up to the committee, you are referring to the match committee , correct?

#8 AlisonC

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 11:50 PM

So "delicate1", who pulled your chain? Are you one of these Trolls who gets their kicks out of slanging off contributors with quite legitimate beefs? Sad person. I have served on numerous committees, from flying clubs, disability service providers, and from military associations to legal services associations. NO where have I mentioned from whence my experience of committee membership types emanates from. As for golf club committees - I have served on those before and in a couple of weeks will be nominated to serve for another year. As for "Rules of Golf", I refer to page 113 of the current rule book (2012-2015) Item 33-2d Course Unplayable and responsibilities of the committee thereto. My initial question to the forum was as to whether players had any form of redress when the committee have apparently failed to fill their function in this regard. EVERYONE who played that day considered the course unplayable. It's just that some were luckier than others. Golf shouldn't be 100% about luck.

#9 pegasus2357

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 01:37 AM

AlisonC First your views on committees, maybe right, maybe wrong. I say this a person finishing his first year as President of my little club and I can look back with pride at what the majority of my Board as accomplished during the year. As to the conditions you have described, whoever was responsible match committee person for the day should have suspended play and if no improvement was forthcoming cancelled the round more than likely. I know the Pros have the ability to mark the positions of their balls and know that the mark will still be there on resumption of play, us good luck with that. So in my humble opinion best option would be to cancel the round even though some players may have completed their rounds. Bound to be proved wrong but that is my personal thoughts without access to Rules and Decisions books

#10 OldBogey

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:33 AM

Alison, I agree with Peg in that, if the committee are advised of how bad conditions were they can declare that round null and void, and replay it. It is not a question of the Rules of Golf, it's up to the body in charge of the competition, i.e. the match committee. If the committee person 'on the ground' on the day thought that conditions were below an acceptable standard but was not prepared to make the decision, he/she should have contacted others (e.g. Captain) to discuss and decide.

#11 OldBogey

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:39 AM

Just going back over it, you said the result had been announced. I assume, therefore, it was a two day event and the day in question was the last day. If results have been announced, it probably is too late now. For future reference, as you asked, no the players cannot make the decision. They can individually choose to withdraw from the competition, but they can't change the actual competition. On the other hand, if everyone chose to withdraw, the committee would have little option but to make a plan B.

#12 OldBogey

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 03:46 AM

On committee people generally, there are those who feel they can contribute positively, perhaps better than others may have done in the past. And there are those who agree to do it because nobody else can be bothered. Some people put in the effort, some just go along for the ride. You occasionally get the arrogant know-it-all who thinks the only right way is his way. I know of one small club which is run by a husband and wife because nobody else can be bothered doing anything. But, usually, such people do not get re-elected.

#13 AAA

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 05:24 AM

Committees are as good or bad as the people who elect them. They are not employees.

#14 PinehillShanka

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Posted 18 October 2012 - 06:19 AM

I understand how you feel Alison. Let me mention one of my more 'memorable' rounds in similar conditions. It was back in the 80's at an 18 hole golf course at Greymouth on the West Coast of the South Island. Man can it rain there. We were into the last round of a 72 hole South Island Police Golf Championship. It was raining 'cats & dogs' and as the round went on many fairways became covered with casual water, and the majority of the greens were also covered with casual water. There was no option but to finish the round - postponing the last round was not an option as most players were from out of town. One quickly learnt that there was little point in hitting the greens, as that meant a long putt, and no matter how hard you hit it, the putt had little chance of getting anywhere near the hole. The best option was to deliberately just miss the greens, and then pop a little wedge in as close to the hole as you could get. I was on a 7 handicap at the time and clearly recall missing a foot putt on the 18th green which would have given me a 79 which would have been amazing in those terrible conditions. Sadly, the results in your competition must stand. Hopefully your match committee will be better prepared next time!!

#15 Tolmij

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 07:00 AM

Some golfers put an enormouse amount of physical and emotional energy into preparation for tournaments they consider significant, so I can understand Alison's anger at the way the official treated the decision. His total disregard for what were obviously unplayable conditions needs to be taken up as a matter of urgency by the general club members. If these decisions are to be made by one person surely there should be more transparent guidelines, one man saying its OK to play then going back to his pot of beer is just not good enough.




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