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Is this asking for "Advice"?


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#1 Pantherman

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 11:52 PM

While playing Stroke yesterday in a group of 4, my ball and another competitors were close on the green. He putted first and the ball broke opposite to what I was reading. I then asked the guy "did that just break left to right?" as i was expecting it to go right to left. He didn't say anything but while walking down the fairway on the next hole he warned me that I could have been penalised two strokes for asking for advice. He was very good about it and was trying to help me as I had told him earlier that i had only started playing recently. When I read the rules though, I'm not convinced I was asking for advice. It seems to me to come down to the definition of "advice". If I had asked him where he thought I should aim on the green then there would be no question about it. But the question I asked was a simple matter of fact? Was his the correct interpretation and am I splitting hairs?

#2 Rawhiti Chopper

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 12:04 AM

If you had to ask then I would say his answer would have helped determine the play of your next stroke ... I'd remind him of rule 1-3 ....

#3 OldBogey

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 01:17 AM

As the answer could influence the player in how he plays his next stroke, it would come under the definition of 'advice'.

#4 AAA

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:12 AM

As the movement of the ball was witnessed by others, it is now a matter of public information. It is similar to asking 'Did your ball hit a tree?'

#5 RulesDoc

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:31 AM

I agree.

#6 Pantherman

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 05:56 AM

As the movement of the ball was witnessed by others, it is now a matter of public information.
It is similar to asking ‘Did your ball hit a tree?’

.

That was my view as well. I didn't think it was any different to saying...."did your ball clip that tree on approach...?" it was more a rhetorical question than a request for information as I saw what the ball did myself and wasn't really asking for advice.

#7 Deege

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Posted 23 October 2012 - 08:34 PM

I find the advice rule really hard to follow, not for asking advice, but for making comments which might be perceived as offering advice. Like one time on the green I said something after I putted like - "gee, you can't put any weight on it at all from that side of the hole" and then realised that someone else was still to putt from that side of the hole. From my side, my inclination is truly innocent and something I would say just like I would comment on the weather to my playing partners, but I am really trying to be careful about it.

#8 dave_1_

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 11:58 AM

Stating "Geez that went right" is probably ok Asking "did that break right" is borderline Lol...Same but different! Thats golf for ya

#9 MaxB

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 04:51 PM

If you had to ask then I would say his answer would have helped determine the play of your next stroke …

I’d remind him of rule 1-3 ….

but you are allowed to ask for a distance (to the green etc), and that definitely helps determine your next shot too..

#10 RulesDoc

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 04:28 AM

There's no inconsistency here. It's allowed to share and discuss distance, it's not "advice" contrary to the Rules. It's also allowed to show the line of play or to tell where the water hazards are on a blind hole. That's very helpful, not "advice", but public info.

#11 Shanks4ever

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 05:33 AM

Sorry, can't help myself, I am back to get the rules section rocking again. First interesting topic for months. 8-2. Indicating Line of Play - but not on a green, the statement which way it breaks is surely a breach as it was not evident to all? So to extend this just a little further, in many tournaments the greens have been mapped so they now become "public information." Player A is then entitled under the "public information" clause to offer an opinion to Player B on the break of his putt before he strokes it because after all it is public information not advice. Once again the rules are mute on a true definition of "public information" as are the "decisions" I suspect. The ruling body has created a fabulous area of grey by using a term without a definitive definition.

#12 OldBogey

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 05:56 AM

Indicating the break on a green is different to indicating the line of play. Indicating the line of play is things like indicating which way the hole goes after the crest in front of the players, or holding up the flag stick so a player can see the line to the hole. A published map of the green is an interesting question. There is nothing to stop a player from bringing such a published map of the greens. An electronic version, say on a tablet, would probably be considered "unusual equipment". Although, so many people carry a tablet (computer) with them at all times, it could be argued that it is not "unusual". Grey indeed !

#13 RulesDoc

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 06:19 AM

Paper or electronic course guide, both are allowed. Any info on a course guide is public info and is obtained before the round. Decision 14-3/16

#14 AAA

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 10:58 AM

Player A is then entitled under the “public information” clause to offer an opinion to Player B on the break of his putt before he strokes it because after all it is public information not advice.
The OP was relating an incident where the break was seen by both players and therefore public information. If there had not been a stroke already, then asking or volunteering information about a possible break would certainly be advice.

#15 dave_1_

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Posted 09 November 2012 - 11:34 AM

Im not saying didley squat about break on greens... Its too risky to go there. I just think say nothing




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