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#1 Rogaman

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 12:18 AM

Wasabi Here is the answer to your question. If you knew that a fellow-competitor had lifted your ball, you would have incurred a penalty of two strokes under Rule 15-3b (playing a wrong ball) as you are required to replace the ball on the correct spot in order to complete the hole. If you did not know that a fellow-competitor had lifted your ball, you could not be penalised for playing a wrong ball. If you became aware of the mistake before playing from the next tee, you were required to replace the ball on the correct spot, without penalty, and complete the hole. If you learned of the mistake after playing from the next tee, the score with the wrong ball would stand and there would be no penalty. If you want to know more about why you played a wrong ball, check the Definition of ‘Ball in Play’ which states that a ball which is lifted is out of play. If you play a stroke with a ball which is out of play, you have played a wrong ball. Note also that a ball can be lifted legitimately only by the player, his partner (in pairs competitions) or someone authorised by the player. (See Rule 20-1.) PS: I am sorry for the way you were treated on the previous thread – it was a disgrace.

#2 GhettoGolfer

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 01:32 AM

Double thumbs up for the Rogaman! That one post would have saved many pages of nothing.

#3 Tolmij

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 03:05 AM

Rogaman, well done.

#4 Dave66

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:47 AM

Now that was simple and easy to understand. Thanks Rogaman.

#5 Goldy

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 06:58 AM

It's official....you rock, Rogaman. Nice work fella.

#6 WasabiPea_Shooter

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 07:56 AM

Ty rogaman, you have restored my faith in human kindness, that was indeed the bullseye response i was seeking..all the best

#7 RulesDoc

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 08:59 AM

Oh well, Answer hundreds and hundreds of questions on this board for years...and you are a self-appointed self-anointed Rules Guru. Answer one and you are the salt of the earth. Hmmm

#8 Spartan52

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 09:26 AM

RulesDoc, I read the other thread and felt there was a bit of self rightousness from both directions. The one thing I didn't see was an answer as succinct as that given above, thats why its being well received, for example I wasn't aware that WP should have been penalised 2 Strokes for not replacing his Ball and re Putting.... I have learnt along the way by reading the Rules Forum and hope this all blows over and you guys continue to share your knowledge with us.

#9 simonsez

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 04:28 PM

Actually Rogaman is wrong as he wasn't playing a "wrong ball" at all.He was however playing the right ball from from the wrong place,which is something quite different. Rule 15 basically says that "A player must hole out with the ball played from the teeing ground". That's what happened, so rule 15 has no bearing on the situation at all. He didn't know that someone had moved his ball so it it was quite ok for him to hole out and continue on as he did.No need at all to go back and replace it.

#10 Peaksta

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 05:29 PM

I tell you what, the original thread was much more interesting than question time in parliment. I am now studying both the Rules of golf and a Thesaurus to ensure both my basic knowledge of the ROG and language skills are up to this type of thread :) Wasabi, have no idea as to the answer, but thanks for asking the question that kept me amused for 20 mins at work!!

#11 RulesGeek

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 05:41 PM

Actually Rogaman is wrong as he wasn’t playing a “wrong ball” at all.

simonsez, have a look at Decision 15-3b/3. To borrow from the teacher analogy (Tolmijj's, I think), it's a shame that the teacher in this case didn't provide a reference to the source of the information so that the students could gain knowledge (rather than merely get an answer to the question).

#12 Bumpun_Beetle

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 05:49 PM

The way I see it, without giving references and specific rule numbers/decisions, a player will go out next time with the "knowledge" they have interpreted from what some bloke on the net said, what happens if they interpreted the advice incorrectly and try and apply it on the course with someone who does know the rules and can and will cite the specific decision or rule from the book?? It's still all about taking responsibility for your own actions

#13 simonsez

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 06:28 PM

Actually Rogaman is wrong as he wasn’t playing a “wrong ball” at all.

simonsez, have a look at Decision 15-3b/3.

To borrow from the teacher analogy (Tolmijj’s, I think), it’s a shame that the teacher in this case didn’t provide a reference to the source of the information so that the students could gain knowledge (rather than merely get an answer to the question).

Fair enough RG.My apologies to Rogaman in that case as he was actually utilising this decision so far as I can see. My point is then that we have 2 sets of decisions which effectively contradict each other: we have 15-3/b which calls it a "wrong ball" (which I still regard as ludicrous)which would require him to go back and play from the correct spot before he tee'd off on the next hole if he found out what had happened in time: and then we have 18 - 1/3 which covers exactly the same thing .but doesn't actually require him to go back and replay.Why you should be able to call someone playing in the same group an "outside agency" is beyond me but that certainly fits the definition.I can't see why this can't be cleaned up by the powers that be at some stage as you could proceed under either decision and not be penalised so far as I can see. Fwiw,I based my initial answer in the first thread more on the tone of the post ,rather than the words used.

#14 publish

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 07:50 PM

Oh well,

Answer hundreds and hundreds of questions on this board for years…and you are a self-appointed, self-anointed Rules Guru.

That would be a self-appointed, self-anointed, opinionated, rude, condescending, sarcastic, cryptic, discourteous, unenlightened and belittling Rules Guru. :-)

#15 GPJ_Longdriver

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Posted 21 September 2012 - 09:13 PM

Having gone over the previous thread, two things clearly stand out to me (and possibly only me). The first ....... Wasabi-Pea ........ instead of the term "playing partner", or indeed fellow competitor, you should have simply used the term ......... "Brain Dead, Old Scottish Prick" to identify the miscreant who dared to touch your ball while your back was turned That would have left all and sundry, I believe, in no doubt as to his playing "status". The second point. To those who responded to Wasa, with the suggestions, that before seeking guidance from the Rules afficianado's, each OP should do two things, 1 ...... learn the rules themselves, and then 2 ....... consult the actual rule book itself for the particular and relevant ruling I applaud you're suggestions, as that means no-one would need this section of the forum. That would then allow the over inflated, full of self importance rules tossers, more time to go and pull the wings off fly's, and burn ants with your magnifying glasses, ....... as opposed to having to deal with petty things like responding to golf questions. Madam, I therefore suggest in the interests of brevity and efficiency .......... that you simply replace this whole section of the forum .... with a direct link to R&A's and US's rules sections. No doubt they (The R&A) will have a large section within the rules, specifically dealing with issues surrounding "Brain Dead, Old Scottish Pricks" .......... thus solving all the issues at once.




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