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wastelands vs bunkers


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#1 xmaggiex

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 08:13 AM

On an unfamiliarcourse, how can you determine exactly what is a wasteland as opposed to a bunker? Should wastelands be marked because some bunkefs dont have rakes?? Ive been caught a couple of times.... Cheers

#2 OldBogey

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 09:41 AM

If the wasteland is sandy, you would have to assume it is a hazard and accordingly follow the rules as to bunkers.

#3 AAA

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Posted 27 August 2012 - 12:22 PM

The course should have some information about how to tell the difference on that course.

#4 hangingout

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Posted 03 September 2012 - 11:00 PM

Is there a rake in there? Normally a giveaway.

#5 RulesDoc

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Posted 04 September 2012 - 05:44 AM

A rake does not necessarily mean that a sandy area is a bunker :-/ I have seen several waste areas with rakes. Waste areas should be marked with signs if they in any way can be mistaken for ordinary bunkers.

#6 hangingout

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 08:09 AM

Wasteland with a rake. Can you quote a course that does this? I'm saying no rake no bunker, not the other way around.

#7 RulesDoc

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 09:23 AM

You'll just have to trust that I don't lie :-)

#8 RulesGeek

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 10:00 AM

Wasteland with a rake. Can you quote a course that does this?
I’m saying no rake no bunker, not the other way around.

There were rakes at last month's PGA Championship despite a local rule stating that there were no bunkers on the course. http://golfweek.com/...awah-forgiving/ "There may be no bunkers at the PGA Championship, but that doesn’t mean caddies have a week off from raking. Though not required, players and caddies have been asked to rake Kiawah Island’s sandy areas as a courtesy to fellow players."

#9 Daves

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 05:28 PM

I played Pelican Waters on the weekend. It has a number of sandy Bunker type areas adjoining Water Hazards. A Local Rule declares them not to be hazards (the specific holes are mentioned). All of them still had rakes in them. The local rule was worded as follows; 4. Bunkers adjoined by Water Hazards (referred to as Sandy Waste Areas): Those sandy waste areas on holes 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 14, & 15 adjoined by Water Hazards or Lateral Water Hazards are not considered hazards. Should the water of the adjoining Water Hazard or Lateral Water Hazard rise to a level beyond the stakes defining the Water Hazard then relief may be taken in accord with Rule 25-1b.

#10 hangingout

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 10:08 PM

RulesGeek............a PGA decision, not that of the club to its members. Daves............I get what this local rule says but not what the topic was on exactly. I'm openly curious to know what courses have sandy areas such as The Lakes in Sydney and has rakes in them for day to day play.

#11 Dulberf

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 11:06 PM

Clearly no rake does not equal a wasteland. I have seen plenty of lower grade courses that don't have rakes in every bunker. You can't assume they are wastelands. On ANY course it is always better to err on the side of caution, and treat all sandy areas as bunkers unless you know for a fact they aren't.

#12 Shimonko

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 11:23 PM

I’m saying no rake no bunker, not the other way around.
You would play an obvious greenside bunker as a waste area if there was no rake?

#13 hangingout

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 05:41 PM

If you can't tell that a bunker is a bunker, rake or not, that's your problem, I'm saying they are easily identifiable. Otherwise, wastelands such as those at The Lakes are easily identifiable as not bunkers and are further backed up by not having rakes. If I'm next to a green, I look at a patch of sand without a rake and wonder if it's a bunker or not..........der. If I'm walking down a fairway and I'm in a sandy area, I think I could tell whether it's a bunker or not by it's shape and style, rake or not. Still waiting to hear of some courses where this confusion occurs.

#14 xmaggiex

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 03:55 AM

Hanging out thats correct re my query. But there are obvious wastelands that have no id or local rule or rake. Perhaps if clubs were generous enought to include signage then we would be clear. Cheers

#15 Ignoramus

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Posted 10 September 2012 - 11:46 PM

We have two large waste areas on our 7th hole, both do not have rakes. The sand in these areas is bunker like and full of foot prints. They are not nice places to play out of.

#16 hangingout

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:17 AM

Yep, not keen on sandy waste areas myself. Some players bound to get caught up in a huge footprint or the like, most unfair. Fill them with native grasses or something.

#17 RulesDoc

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 07:59 AM

Sometimes waste areas are actually natural dunes, and they can't be filled or covered :-)

#18 hangingout

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 03:57 PM

Natural sand dunes are nice, it's the manufactured wastelands that can be an unfair part of the course sometimes. Only about the lie you get in them. I think Barnbougle gives you relief from footprints but then you're not playing a comp/tournament. The Lakes in Syd is an example of many wastelands and quite often being in a huge footprint.

#19 RulesDoc

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 05:24 PM

A Local Rule allowing free relief from footprints is not a legal Local Rule

#20 OldBogey

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 12:46 AM

They have 'Irish drop' there too, RD. Also not legal. But who's counting?




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