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lateral water hazard


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#1 burkey08

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 01:00 AM

Could someone please clear up for me the correct procedure for releif from a lateral water hazard? Our course has lateral water hazards marked by red stakes. I was under the impression that the ball was to be dropped 2 club lengths from the anticipated point of entry into the Hazard. I also like to know under what circumstances can the ball be dropped back in line with the point of entry as far as you like from a lateral water hazard? There has been some conjector at our club in regards to the correct releif in regards to the above.

#2 RulesGeek

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 01:04 AM

Could someone please clear up for me the correct procedure for releif from a lateral water hazard? Our course has lateral water hazards marked by red stakes. I was under the impression that the ball was to be dropped 2 club lengths from the anticipated point of entry into the Hazard.

That's one of the two options mentioned in Rule 26-1c.

I also like to know under what circumstances can the ball be dropped back in line with the point of entry as far as you like from a lateral water hazard?

That's (a mediocre description of) the option mentioned in Rule 26-1b. In taking relief from a lateral water hazard the player may use any of the options listed in Rule 26-1 (note that 26-1c(ii) may not be possible due to the 'geometry').

#3 burkey08

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 01:20 AM

Thanks Rules... just so I can sum this up. Any hazard marked with red stakes indicating a lateral water hazard can take releif as far back as they like as long as the keep in line with the point of entry where the ball crossed the hazard? or within 2 club lengths of going into the hazard? I guess what I'am confused about is that just say your ball enters the LWH over a tree and the 2 club lenghts does not provide any releif you can then opt for rule 26-1b and take it back as far as you like.....maybe far enough to get over that tree for the next shot......just as an example. Next question does a LWH have to contain water?

#4 Inspector

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 02:00 AM

Definition of a water hazard is : any sea, lake, pond, river, ditch, surface drainage ditch or other open water course (whether or not containing water) and anything of a similar nature on the course. All ground and water within the margin of a water hazard are part of the water hazard. A “lateral water hazard” is a water hazard or that part of a water hazard so situated that it is not possible, or is deemed by the Committee to be impracticable, to drop a ball behind the water hazard in accordance with Rule 26-Ib. All ground and water within the margin of a lateral water hazard are part of the lateral water hazard. In taking the relief you are talking about, (26-1b) the ball must be dropped behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; In other words, line up the flag with where the ball went in the hazard and then go back in a straight line as far as you like.

#5 Shimonko

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 05:17 AM

I guess what I’am confused about is that just say your ball enters the LWH over a tree and the 2 club lenghts does not provide any releif you can then opt for rule 26-1b and take it back as far as you like…..maybe far enough to get over that tree for the next shot…...
You can, but a water hazard shouldn't be marked as a LWH if it is practical to go back in a straight line from the flag. Going back in a straight line is more common for non-lateral water hazards. Also note that it is the last point of entry which is important.

#6 burkey08

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 05:36 AM

thanks steb can I throw this senerio out there then....what if all hazard markers on a particular course are red, hence all hazards are represented as LWH. Is it ok for a player who hits a ball into a hazard (even though it by definition not a true LWH but is marked as such) can he take relief under the LWH rules of golf?

#7 Libba

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 05:53 AM

Thanks Rules… just so I can sum this up. Any hazard marked with red stakes indicating a lateral water hazard can take releif as far back as they like as long as the keep in line with the point of entry where the ball crossed the hazard? or within 2 club lengths of going into the hazard?

I guess what I’am confused about is that just say your ball enters the LWH over a tree and the 2 club lenghts does not provide any releif you can then opt for rule 26-1b and take it back as far as you like…..maybe far enough to get over that tree for the next shot…...just as an example.

Next question does a LWH have to contain water?

“can you see my ball?’

“Yer over there, behind the front of that tree”

If you have a tree or something similar in your way at the point where you want to drop the ball, you can also go to a point on the other side of the LWH equidistant from the hole and drop a ball there.

#8 pom

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 05:59 AM

The hazard is marked as Laterall. It is lateral.l & the appropriate rule can be used. Steb we have several water hazards that are marked as Lateral hazards purely because they are lakes & they are shaped such that in some places you can go directly back from point of entry but in others it is not possible. I think it is Impractical to continueously change the colour of the stakes as you move around the lake. There is also the situation with courses that have multiple water hazards that a Water hazard for one hole can also be a Lateral hazard for another.

#9 OldBogey

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 06:07 AM

Burkey, GA provide all clubs with stacks of rule books, more than enough for every member to have his own copy. Get one and read it.

#10 burkey08

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 06:03 PM

The hazard is marked as Laterall. It is lateral.l & the appropriate rule can be used.
Steb we have several water hazards that are marked as Lateral hazards purely because they are lakes & they are shaped such that in some places you can go directly back from point of entry but in others it is not possible.
I think it is Impractical to continueously change the colour of the stakes as you move around the lake.
There is also the situation with courses that have multiple water hazards that a Water hazard for one hole can also be a Lateral hazard for another.

Thanks Pom, so at Willows say on ten I hook one into the water the edge within 2 club lengths is quite steep on that hole so i can take it back as far as I like in line with the point of entry to the fairway and play from there. Is that correct?

#11 burkey08

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 06:14 PM

Burkey, GA provide all clubs with stacks of rule books, more than enough for every member to have his own copy.

Get one and read it.

Thanks Bogey, I have one of the books and I am asking these particular questions as our course is completly marked with red lateral hazard markers. So where people are going into a hazard they are taking releif as far back as they like. I know you are going to say that the markers should have to be changed in colour to represent hazard not LWH. I am just trying to establish the exact rules for this situation so everyone is on a far playing feild. If I want to put forward change for the club I would like to ensure that I have as much information as possible so these things can be changed. Everyone in the club has read the rule and iterpretation seems to be the issue. I know that people the go into the "hazard" we have that is marked as a LWH but will only drop the ball within 2 club lengths because they know it is just a "hazard" while others take advantage of taking the ball back futher to ensure a better shot at the green "which I think as wrong? But if the red LWM indicate that this can be done then I will be more than happy to roll with the rules. As you can see this particular situation is hard to find in the rule book.

#12 Libba

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 06:31 PM

The hazard is marked as Laterall. It is lateral.l & the appropriate rule can be used.
Steb we have several water hazards that are marked as Lateral hazards purely because they are lakes & they are shaped such that in some places you can go directly back from point of entry but in others it is not possible.
I think it is Impractical to continueously change the colour of the stakes as you move around the lake.
There is also the situation with courses that have multiple water hazards that a Water hazard for one hole can also be a Lateral hazard for another.

Thanks Pom, so at Willows say on ten I hook one into the water the edge within 2 club lengths is quite steep on that hole so i can take it back as far as I like in line with the point of entry to the fairway and play from there. Is that correct?

“can you see my ball?’

“Yer over there, behind the front of that tree”

When you say " take it back as far as I like in line with the point of entry to the fairway and play from there" you can't go in any direction. You take a line from the hole, through the point of entry to the hazard, and follow that line back. With most lateral water hazards, this line will often actually take you back into the hazard itself, and is an impractical option to take. This is why LWHs have the additional option of a two clublength drop, that yellow staked WHs do not have.

#13 Libba

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 06:37 PM

Burkey, GA provide all clubs with stacks of rule books, more than enough for every member to have his own copy.

Get one and read it.

Thanks Bogey, I have one of the books and I am asking these particular questions as our course is completly marked with red lateral hazard markers. So where people are going into a hazard they are taking releif as far back as they like. I know you are going to say that the markers should have to be changed in colour to represent hazard not LWH. I am just trying to establish the exact rules for this situation so everyone is on a far playing feild. If I want to put forward change for the club I would like to ensure that I have as much information as possible so these things can be changed. Everyone in the club has read the rule and iterpretation seems to be the issue. I know that people the go into the “hazard” we have that is marked as a LWH but will only drop the ball within 2 club lengths because they know it is just a “hazard” while others take advantage of taking the ball back futher to ensure a better shot at the green “which I think as wrong? But if the red LWM indicate that this can be done then I will be more than happy to roll with the rules. As you can see this particular situation is hard to find in the rule book.

“can you see my ball?’

“Yer over there, behind the front of that tree”

This is the bit from rule 26 that you are after: a. Proceed under the stroke and distance provision of Rule 27-1 by playing a ball as nearly as possible at the spot from which the original ball was last played (see Rule 20-5); or b. Drop a ball behind the water hazard, keeping the point at which the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard directly between the hole and the spot on which the ball is dropped, with no limit to how far behind the water hazard the ball may be dropped; or c. As additional options available only if the ball last crossed the margin of a lateral water hazard, drop a ball outside the water hazard within two club-lengths of and not nearer the hole than (i) the point where the original ball last crossed the margin of the water hazard or (ii) a point on the opposite margin of the water hazard equidistant from the hole. The main point being that the two club option is an "additional" option to the other two.

#14 burkey08

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 06:44 PM

Thanks Libba, so has to be in line with the flag, this is the interpretaion misunderstanding that we are encountering at present. As stated in 26-1 "directly between the hole and the spot which the ball is dropped, with no limit how far behind the water hazard the ball maybe dropped" people are thinking they can take it back as far as they like in the direction from the point of entry which is incorrect.

#15 Libba

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:08 PM

Right. The flag, point of entry, and place where you drop all have to be in a straight line.

#16 Spartan52

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 11:02 PM

Thats the same scenario with an unplayable lie isn't it?

#17 Libba

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 11:47 PM

Thats the same scenario with an unplayable lie isn’t it?

Incoming Golf Balls have the right of way!

Yes. Option 1 Replay the shot Option 2 Drop within two club lengths from where the ball is lying Option 3 Go back in a straight line from the flag so that the flag, unplayable ball position and drop position are all in a straight line.

#18 FredFunk

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:44 PM

My home course (god bless it) has a lot of dense scrub bordering the fairways which is marked as lateral hazards. A couple questions for the rules aficionado's out there if I may: 1) Quite often the ball can be found inside the hazard, but is not playable. There is generally a significant distance (in many cases 100m+) between where the ball last crossed the hazard and where it ends up. If I locate my ball but elect not to play it, do I have the option of keeping my current distance from the hole and moving sideways out of the hazard to drop it (?) or do I have to trek back to where it last crossed the red line? 2) When you know your ball has definitely entered the hazard but you and your marker have considerably differing ideas about where it last crossed and you can't reach a concensus, who's opinion prevails?

#19 OldBogey

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:21 PM

Fred, you may play your ball from wherever it ends up. If you choose not to, the reference point is where your ball last crossed the margin of the hazard, even if that is 100m further from the hole than its resting place. You can drop within two clublengths of the reference point. In answer to 2), it's the player's decision as to where he drops. If his marker disagrees, the marker may choose to not sign the card until he has referred the matter to the match committee. If the match committee support the marker over you, you may be deemed to have obtained a significant advantage by playing from a wrong place and be disqualified. By playing from a wrong place and not recoding the penalty, you have signed for a wrong score and also be disqualified. It's best to get concensus with your marker &/or other fellow competitors at the time so there isn't a problem later.

#20 FredFunk

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 10:31 PM

Many thanks OB.




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