Jump to content


 

 

 

 

Special Promotions

Photo

un knowingly played from a garden bed ?


  • Please log in to reply
71 replies to this topic

#1 parsandbirdies

parsandbirdies

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4901 posts

Posted 16 February 2012 - 07:13 PM

ok rules people this is the situation 2 weeks ago I played round 1 club champs. on the 9th I played my 2nd into a group of trees a jungle about 4mt square, my ball was found by a playing partner, it was buried and crap all over it. I gathered the group I was with and asked what my options were 1. was play as lies 2. unplayable drop within 2 clubs. id I dropped I was still in the crap so I decided to try and hack it out. I hacked one and it moved 2 foot then I took the unplayable option which I knocked out. I scored a 9 on that hole after being in there for 2. over the last week with discussion with other members I find out its classed as a garden bed and I had a free drop, which would have put me on for 3. also I found out that playing from the garden bed is a penalty. Added - this is not a defined garden bed grass goes right I to it.. I am going to speak with match committee this Saturday and explain what happened. Q. where do I stand ? I played the ball as it lied on good faith and with consultation of my playing group, which had a ladies committee member in it and a 25 year club member... I'm happy with whatever the result is which I see as either DQ or score stands.. mind you I did get a 9 where with drop would have been a 5 at worst and I'm currently leading A grade by 1 shot. please some advice.. Andrew

#2 Joe Blake

Joe Blake

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2630 posts

Posted 16 February 2012 - 07:19 PM

Your score stands regardless. Now check you local rule, does it say 'compulsory' relief from garden beds or not?

#3 parsandbirdies

parsandbirdies

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4901 posts

Posted 16 February 2012 - 07:32 PM

as posted, It is a penalty from playing a ball that lies within the garden bed..

#4 ShortsTuff

ShortsTuff

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1108 posts

Posted 16 February 2012 - 08:47 PM

Because the comp is still open, you're subject to DQ for not including the penalty. May get lucky if the penalty you took for the unplayable is the same as that for playing the first shot in the bed AND where you took the drop was allowable under the free relief option you didn't know about, in which case score will stand and you should be ok. Even so, the full committee has the ability to waive the DQ in certain circumstances. You have to demonstrate and have them accept that you "could not reasonably have known or discovered the facts" before handing in your card See this decision Decision 33-7/4.5 part below Q.A competitor returns his score card. It later transpires that the score for one hole is lower than actually taken due to his failure to include a penalty stroke(s) which he did not know he had incurred. The error is discovered before the competition has closed. Would the Committee be justified, under Rule 33-7, in waiving or modifying the penalty of disqualification prescribed in Rule 6-6d? A.Generally, the disqualification prescribed by Rule 6-6d must not be waived or modified. However, if the Committee is satisfied that the competitor could not reasonably have known or discovered the facts resulting in his breach of the Rules, it would be justified under Rule 33-7 in waiving the disqualification penalty prescribed by Rule 6-6d. The penalty stroke(s) associated with the breach would, however, be applied to the hole where the breach occurred. They can either maintain the DQ or add the penalty to your score. Good luck!

#5 parsandbirdies

parsandbirdies

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4901 posts

Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:31 PM

hahhaa cool thanks .

#6 Rodent

Rodent

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 252 posts

Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:51 PM

The other options you originally had but were not mentioned were to a) hit from where you played your 2nd shot under penalty of 1 stroke b) take an unplayable and go back as far as you like in line with the flag. In hindsight, both would have been better options and avoided an ambiguous ruling.

#7 Shimonko

Shimonko

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4915 posts

Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:59 PM

May get lucky if the penalty you took for the unplayable is the same as that for playing the first shot in the bed AND where you took the drop was allowable under the free relief option you didn’t know about, in which case score will stand and you should be ok.
He has played twice from compulsory GUR. Two shot penalty each time. The unplayable lie penalty also counts. He's four shots short. Any leniency would hinge on how accurately the GUR was marked, as 33-2 requires.

#8 parsandbirdies

parsandbirdies

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4901 posts

Posted 16 February 2012 - 10:12 PM

May get lucky if the penalty you took for the unplayable is the same as that for playing the first shot in the bed AND where you took the drop was allowable under the free relief option you didn’t know about, in which case score will stand and you should be ok.

He has played twice from compulsory GUR. Two shots each time. The unplayable lie penalty also counts. He’s four shots short.

Any leniency would hinge on how accurately the GUR was marked, as 33-2 requires.

 

not marked at all. oh well will see what happens...

#9 ShortsTuff

ShortsTuff

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1108 posts

Posted 16 February 2012 - 10:17 PM

Steb I'm betting the local rule doesn't follow the specimen and the area hasn't been marked/defined. Wasn't clear also that the second stroke was from the GUR - probably was tho, a small chance of an out. I'd also be arguing whether it was GUR as (should have been) defined in the local rule. They're often badly done as you know. Bugger of a way to lose your lead in the champs, I reckon.

#10 Shimonko

Shimonko

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4915 posts

Posted 16 February 2012 - 10:17 PM

@p&b, careless wording on my part - I should have said 'defined', not 'marked'.

#11 Shimonko

Shimonko

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4915 posts

Posted 16 February 2012 - 10:32 PM

I read him having two shots from within the GUR - he said he knocked it out after taking the unplayable.

#12 parsandbirdies

parsandbirdies

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4901 posts

Posted 16 February 2012 - 11:56 PM

I read him having two shots from within the GUR – he said he knocked it out after taking the unplayable.

 

that is correct steb, 2 from in the crap. the boundary of the area in question is not marked nor defined, grass goes right into it and all the other garden beds on course have wooden sleepers as boundary and wood chip under foot, this one does not have either. I honestly thought I'm in the crap and I need to get it out, Ironically. I tried to milk a drop from the area, but considering the company I was in, a ladies official a club stalwart and another single figure player I took their word for it. I also had played s provisional from where I had my second shot and it was at the front of the green then since my ball was found it was subsequently picked up by my marker. just a comedy of errors which I'm sure will be corrected whatever be final decision becomes. if its 4 shots well I can make that back, DQ I move to next year.

#13 RulesGeek

RulesGeek

    Former Castle Dweller

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1137 posts

Posted 17 February 2012 - 12:06 AM

He has played twice from compulsory GUR. Two shot penalty each time. The unplayable lie penalty also counts. He’s four shots short.

Do you interpret the withdrawal, for the 2012 book, of Decision 25-3/2 (which said that the player's penalty was two strokes even though he had played two stroke from an area from which play was prohibited) as a sign that the penalty should be four strokes?

#14 pom

pom

    Old Grouch.

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 10754 posts
  • Locationtownsville

Posted 17 February 2012 - 12:17 AM

P&B. Check the local rules & any conditions of play for the competition. If the area you described is not defined as a garden bed or Compulsory GUR then you did the right thing and the score should stand. If the area is defined in some way & you were unaware of this then you are at the mercy of the Match committee & any decision that they wish to make.

#15 parsandbirdies

parsandbirdies

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4901 posts

Posted 17 February 2012 - 01:01 AM

P&B. Check the local rules & any conditions of play for the competition. If the area you described is not defined as a garden bed or Compulsory GUR then you did the right thing and the score should stand.
If the area is defined in some way & you were unaware of this then you are at the mercy of the Match committee & any decision that they wish to make.

i will take all this info and rules/decisions to them on Saturday, plead the not defined case, then fall back on Decision 33-7/4.5 as a final resort :) i will accept any decision they come up with, rules are rules, would hate to win thinking i cheated the others even if it was mistaken...




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users