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Combating the advantage of long hitters


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#1 djcraig

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 06:49 AM

This may have been brought up before... If so just point me at the thread. Going through pages is very tedious if one only has a iPhone to browse the web. How do you combat the natural advantage that a long hitter has, compared to an average hitter when designing a course? If you put bunkers in the landing area a smart long hitter just pulls out a 3 wood and can then hit a mid iron while a short hitter has to hit driver and a long iron on the same hole. Anyway I think about it the long hitter always has an advantage because they can always just hit a more lofted club.

#2 OldBogey

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Posted 27 September 2011 - 08:24 AM

That's why everyone always wants to be able to hit them longer, except for those who already can!

#3 ParkRoyal

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 12:53 AM

It shouldn't be about preventing the long hitter from using their advantage. It should be about making the long hitter be skilled enough to use their advantage. Providing worthy temptation without being severe or to easy is a very difficult thing to achieve.

#4 Shanks4ever

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 03:57 AM

Course designers should always build a risk/reward strategy in every hole. If you are long and straight you should have an advantage.

#5 ParkRoyal

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:43 PM

Shouldn't necessarily mean long and straight, it should be the most skilled. There should be holes where being able to shape the shot gives you the advantage. Outside of par 3's, the strategy of the hole shouldn't be forced.

#6 Shanks4ever

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 09:02 PM

Don't disagree with you, to be long and straight this includes the shaping of the shot, straight denotes to me means you are on the fairway and missed the hazards. ie draw or fade = long and straight Par 3's should rarely have 1 forced strategy. The dumbest hole in golf is TPC 17th at Sawgrass, hit the green, or get another ball out of you bag and proceed to the drop zone. Great for spectators but a really dumb golf hole as are all island greens.

#7 2manybogeys

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:46 AM

Course designers should always build a risk/reward strategy in every hole.

If you are long and straight you should have an advantage.

John Huggan on the passing of Seve – “Sadly for all who love golf as the art form it is meant to be and not the science it has become, we may never see his like again.”

Agree. Being a short hitter I tend to find another way around the trouble and believe you must have the hazards where the big boys go. The rest of us have a handicap and need to find our own way home whatever that may be. Not reaching the hazards off the tee can sometimes be a beneficial thing.

#8 golfer69

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 03:23 AM

The dumbest hole in golf is TPC 17th at Sawgrass, hit the green, or get another ball out of you bag and proceed to the drop zone. Great for spectators but a really dumb golf hole as are all island greens.
This is the difference between great strategic holes and great penal holes. Strategic gives you options wheras penal is **** or bust. TPC 17 is one of the most famous penal holes in the world. Whilst not a fan of penal golf I bet I would be waiting all day to play that hole and probably the most talked about afterwards. Kooralbyn's #17 had a similar vibe about it....not a great hole...highly penal with no bail out but geez it was a massive talking point about the place.

#9 Joe Blake

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Posted 04 October 2011 - 05:42 AM

The 17th Green at Sawgrass quite a large green. I remember when they were designing the course they were toying with the idea of making a postage stamp green, in the end they decided on an 'envelope'. It is only 115m from the normal tee, which makes it about the same as the short holes at Pebble Beach or Royal Troon, but is much wider, and about twice the size all up

#10 TDB

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Posted 25 December 2011 - 08:54 PM

The great courses don't require driver off every tee. I love where you have multiple choices. It comes down to bunkering, fairway slope and the best angle to approach the green from. I love places like Commonwealth and Victoria where you can hit anywhere from driver to 4 iron on many holes depending on what you want your second shot to be.

#11 Old Poppy

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Posted 26 December 2011 - 05:02 PM

This may have been brought up before… If so just point me at the thread. Going through pages is very tedious if one only has a iPhone to browse the web.

How do you combat the natural advantage that a long hitter has, compared to an average hitter when designing a course?
If you put bunkers in the landing area a smart long hitter just pulls out a 3 wood and can then hit a mid iron while a short hitter has to hit driver and a long iron on the same hole.

Anyway I think about it the long hitter always has an advantage because they can always just hit a more lofted club.

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John Daly had this to say - "Any time you win a tournament, you win with your short game. Whether it's chipping or putting, you win tournaments with your short game." One of the issues that annoys me is the trend to design elephant buirial greens with elevation on long par-4's with hazards (including bunkers) in front of the green. Or holes where the approach into the green requires one particular type of shot.

#12 OldBogey

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 12:00 AM

Agree entirely, Raz. Often the 'experts' who design these things fail to consider how someone who is less than expert might handle things differently. Most greens should have a 'safe layup' option where the player might deliberately play short of a green-in-reg but the the prospect of an up-and-down. That might also provide an opportunity for the lesser player to get to the lay-up area and still have a chance. After John Daly has blasted his ball a mile down the fairway, of course he's then in 'short game' mode. The rest of us are well and truly still in 'long game' mode, hoping to eventually get to the short game area. We don't play the same golf.

#13 MonkeyFlaps

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 03:42 AM

That's why you have handicaps. Sure beats playing a course full of 310m holes which favour C Graders.

#14 ParkRoyal

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 12:51 AM

Will take a course of good strategic shorter 4's over 400+ nothing but long plodders.

#15 mrplou

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 07:06 PM

Yet whenever these courses get built, the par 4s and 5s that dont reward driver down the guts get bagged. 13th beach copped this a bit, but is a much better course for it. Every relevant hole will reward driver off the tee, but you need serious talent to make it work. Like creek 6/9/14 and beach 6. The choppers who fanny fade driver 230-250m hate these holes.




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