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The House of Zen


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#1 Zenstb

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 09:27 PM

Scott Beaumont is a partner managing the Australasia division for Zenolink the leader in the field of functional biomechanics, which is the analysis of motion and the effects of the forces produced by the human body and its movement. He also coaches biomechanics and writes articles for Inside Golf magazine educating golfers and coaches about the science and its application to the golf swing.
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#2 Zenstb

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 04:09 AM

Hi Iseek readers, Below is articles I have written for inside golf magazine. Have a read through them and I welcome you to ask me any questions about them. Kinetic Link Ground forces and lower body mechanics Muscular Loading Club Release biomechanically Club Dynamics Baseball vs golf Activity Specific Coordination

#3 Zenstb

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 04:25 AM

Hi Iseek Readers, As promised I said I would upload my swing and my data of my golf swing. I'm comparing my swing when I returned back to the game to start playing after my accident and my golf swing data currently. I hope you enjoy and fee freel to ask me a ton of questions. Zen's ZenoLink data

#4 Weeti

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 06:09 AM

It's interesting zen ... the more I see this stuff the more I can see how the parts are working together from the different graphs, and how the problems in the kinetic link graph show up in the other graphs. What I get out of your data is that you personify that old idea of swinging everything back together and then everything through together. You move hips and torso and arms together, rather than in sequence. Fair call?

#5 Shimonko

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 06:26 AM

The stability analysis refers to the linear displacement of the centre of mass. How does Zenolink define the centre of mass?

#6 deepdivot

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 06:48 AM

Hey mate have u loaded the video u put up the other day in the bio/mechanical breakdown thread. That video will give everyone a great understanding of bio mechanics.

#7 Zenstb

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 07:23 AM

The stability analysis refers to the linear displacement of the centre of mass.

How does Zenolink define the centre of mass?

 

There is an industry standard we all stick to for centre of mass. The centre of mass is located directly underneath the navel. The centre of mass is the centre of our balance point for our body mass, the whole body reacts to how the centre of mass moves.

#8 Zenstb

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 07:34 AM

It’s interesting zen … the more I see this stuff the more I can see how the parts are working together from the different graphs, and how the problems in the kinetic link graph show up in the other graphs.

What I get out of your data is that you personify that old idea of swinging everything back together and then everything through together. You move hips and torso and arms together, rather than in sequence. Fair call?

Every swing is an 8 iron swing!

Weetbix, We look at the kinetic link then break it downs to pin point what is causing the coordination break downs in our movement. Your second question I don't quite follow what you mean. My first swing was all arms to power my swing, the lower body and upper body wasn't contributing to the kinetic link. My recent swing, I'm engaging my lower body first to start my downswing and my arms and body are acceleration/ decel together. Which is a great sign. My next test I would like to see my lower body engage and accelerate first to start my downswing, then decelerate and then my upper body accelerates/ decelerates and followed by my arms. Really what we are seeing is my swing transforming from all arms to a kinetic link, I'm about the half way point.

#9 TheDart

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 07:35 AM

The stability analysis refers to the linear displacement of the centre of mass.

How does Zenolink define the centre of mass?

 

Steb, I think it a point between my fat arse and my fat guts. One point at the top of my beer barrel forming a triangle to my buttocks. The center of that triangle would be approximately the center of mass, near enough for this purpose. Try to get the general idea without splitting hairs. There is a heap to learn here. Rough stuff first - fine detail later. I hope you are doing better.

#10 Zenstb

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 07:39 AM

Hey mate have u loaded the video u put up the other day in the bio/mechanical breakdown thread. That video will give everyone a great understanding of bio mechanics.

Don’t ever do today what u can put off till tomorrow.

I quickly put together a 5 minute video showing data, take a look and you can see what we are dealing with and why golf swing mechanics can’t teach kinetic links. These guys are ok players and had a lot of lessons. This video will help understand we have to create different training prorgams specific for each athlete. Different Biomechanical Breakdowns

#11 Shimonko

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 08:06 AM

The centre of mass is located directly underneath the navel.
That's what I would have presumed, but 10:38 into video confused me where you talk about your hips sliding first, then rotating. The video clearly shows that is true, yet the blue graph shows nearly no linear displacement until about 1 frame before your hips start to rotate?

#12 Shimonko

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 08:13 AM

I think it a point between my fat arse and my fat guts. One point at the top of my beer barrel forming a triangle to my buttocks. The center of that triangle would be approximately the center of mass, near enough for this purpose.
Try to get the general idea without splitting hairs. There is a heap to learn here. Rough stuff first – fine detail later.

I hope you are doing better.

Heh Paul, chaotic life at the moment so have hardly played at all. I hope you're well and you haven't grown a fat arse and beer gut. Not splitting hairs at all. The blue graph I don't understand why it takes so long to move off zero and it made me wonder if Zenolink was using a truer centre of mass that moves from the centre of the body when the body tilts.

#13 Zenstb

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 09:55 AM

The centre of mass is located directly underneath the navel.

That’s what I would have presumed, but 10:38 into video confused me where you talk about your hips sliding first, then rotating. The video clearly shows that is true, yet the blue graph shows nearly no linear displacement until about 1 frame before your hips start to rotate?

 

Steb, Because my hips are sliding along the target, which the data indicates, the blue line runs along the X coordinates up until frames 8. (a long the zero line) the hips don't rotate until I start Pressing. But because my hips are sliding I can't stop them, they are sliding with acceleration and I have no equal opposite forces to stop my hips continually sliding. The time I press to create the equal opposite reaction it is to late to stop my slide. Because I also press late my hips accelerate late and I'm unable to press enough or fast enough create hip deceleration. As a result of this the hips spin out through impact as well. It's very dangerous when people try to interpret data with out fully understanding our data or our graphs or any formal education or training : )

#14 foster12345

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 05:30 PM

interesting stuff zen

#15 Shimonko

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 06:44 PM

Dangerous? Scientists read what is indicated and ask questions to complete their understanding. That's science. You're wasting too much time going off track and not addressing the question so I'll try multiple choice: 1. Linear displacement in the unified language of science means change of position along a line, as opposed to its rotation about a point. Does Zenolink agree? a) yes b) no 2. If Zenolink agrees, which direction is the blue graph showing the change of position of the navel towards? a) horizontally towards the target, as in hip slide b) horizontally towards the ball c) vertically

#16 Zenstb

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 07:34 PM

Dangerous? Scientists read what is indicated and ask questions to complete their understanding. That’s science.

You’re wasting too much time going off track and not addressing the question so I’ll try multiple choice:

1. Linear displacement in the unified language of science means change of position along a line, as opposed to its rotation about a point. Does Zenolink agree?

a) yes

b) no

2. If Zenolink agrees, which direction is the blue graph showing the change of position of the navel towards?

a) horizontally towards the target, as in hip slide

b) horizontally towards the ball

c) vertically

 

Ok Steb, If your going to try and belittle and speak to me like a smart arse leave my thread. Your not trying to learn , you hear to try and pick holes in our data. I explained what the data represent either take on board what I kindly explained or leave it. I don't need to be cross examined. As I said with out any formal education or knowledge understanding our data is dangerous, your trying to interpret the data and there is no need to, I explained what the data meant. Either take it or leave it. We aren't obligated to give out how we exactly measure things and we have the right to keep this closed shop as well. Our competitors would give any thing to get there hands on how we do this.

#17 foster12345

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 08:25 PM

zen i can grasp speeding up a golf swing and i think i know what you say in regards to letting it all build up till the wrists release it all out. what i find hard to understand and mabe you can explane it for me and anyone else,is the slow down of the segments,not trying to question your data. how do you slow the segments down during a dynamic swing? if you can explane how that is done it may give me and others a better understanding of what you are saying ty zen

#18 waffle_iron

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 08:47 PM

Myself, Steb and Shanks and Brad love your work Zen.

#19 bhughesgolf

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 08:58 PM

Hi Iseek readers,
Below is articles I have written for inside golf magazine.
Have a read through them and I welcome you to ask me any questions about them.

First this & then this?
Ok Steb, If your going to try and belittle and speak to me like a smart arse leave my thread. Your not trying to learn , you hear to try and pick holes in our data. I explained what the data represent either take on board what I kindly explained or leave it. I don’t need to be cross examined. As I said with out any formal education or knowledge understanding our data is dangerous, your trying to interpret the data and there is no need to, I explained what the data meant. Either take it or leave. We aren’t obligated to give out how we exactly measure things and we have the right to keep this closed shop as well. Our competitors would give any thing to get there hands on how we do this.
I think for someone of Steb's intellect this is a very reasonable request. The data is there presented and I believe with his background he should have the right to question the data and how it is read. He is a bright man. I doubt he is trying to belittle you or use it to sell to a competitor.!!! It's a legit question about how the data is assessed. I don't care one way or the other as I don't want to understand the readout...he does so is asking questions....questions that were meant to be all considered.

#20 Zenstb

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Posted 18 September 2011 - 02:16 AM

Linear displacement in biomechanics is measured different to linear displacement Steb is speaking about. The hips are rotating so the displacement is measured entirely different.




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