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How to get more roll from a driver?


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#1 kar

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 05:22 PM

Hi, I am hitting my driver high but only get a few meters of roll. I have tried changing to low spin shaft (Diamana Whiteboard stiff) and less lofted club (9.5) but they made very little difference. My swing speed is between 90-95mph. What should I do? Thanks.

#2 Ignoramus

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 05:41 PM

My suggestion is before each swing see yourself keeping the elbows close together throughout the full swing (try and get them to almost touch at the top of the backswing) and keep them together well into the follow-through. This will keep the loft down through the impact area. The opposite is the arms separating and the loft increasing. If you start pulling then you have got outside the ball/target swing plane.

#3 Dr Nick Riviera

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 06:18 PM

Or dont play on wet courses. :)

#4 AB_LongGolfer

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 07:41 PM

Hi,
I am hitting my driver high but only get a few meters of roll. I have tried changing to low spin shaft (Diamana Whiteboard stiff) and less lofted club (9.5) but they made very little difference. My swing speed is between 90-95mph. What should I do?
Thanks.

Kar the important thing is "not to throw the baby out with the bath water". No need to change your technique until we understand what is truly happening here. 1. Are you saying you never get any run ever or just currently? "If it is just currently mate, you are certainly not on your own. This winter in Australia has been a particularly wet one and courses have become very soft. This is bad conditions for getting a driver to release. If this is a problem you are only experiencing currently my advice would be give it 3 months and you should be seeing some release." 2. Describe you driver trajectory for me? "Is it flat and domed shaped or is there any noticeable rise in its flight as it progresses? (ie. Starts low to medium and climbs during flight)" 3. Your driver dynamics with your swing dynamics could be killing you! "I notice 3 things in your post... 9.5 degree loft, Whiteboard S and 90-95mph swing speed... Mate you are killing yourself dynamically before you even begin to swing... Whiteboard: You are looking at a shaft here that has a very high kickpoint and a stiff tip which is designed for low spin and LOW FLIGHT combine that with a 9.5 degree loft and you are looking at a tour style driver. The problem is the average tour pro creates a dynamic ball speed of 170mph + Dynamics: Understand that at a swing speed of 90-95 mph you will be creating a ball speed of 130-140mph. So to optimise your driver distance you will be looking at a launch angle of 14-16 degrees and a spin rate of around 3500rpm. How can you achieve that with a 9.5 degree driver and a high bend, low torque, low spin shaft? You can't in my opinion... It will require a positive attack (catching it on the up swing) on the ball of between 5-7 degrees, very difficult to do." What I would recommend? Get yourself a 12-13 degree driver head to start with, this will dynamically suit you better in terms of launch angle and elevating spin. Try it with the Whiteboard as it may flatten the flight (you may need to eventually drop the shaft a little also) but for now I would definitely say increase your loft, you are putting negative pressure on your driver dynamics. Any questions, give me a yell here... GUYS THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT POINT... LOW SPIN/LOW LAUNCH OFF THE DRIVER IS NOT WHAT IT IS CRACKED UP TO BE! Launch angle will be determined by ball speed, as speed goes down, launch angle must go up. Spin rate must also increase to stabilise the flight and gain carry. Most of you guys are missing carry not run. Will start a Sticky today where we can discuss tee shot issues. AB

#5 Monty85

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 08:01 PM

Or dont play on wet courses. :)

http://www.golflink.com.au/...
POW….right in the kissa….POW right in the kissa….POW right in the kissa…….ARGHHHHHH

Yep that will work. Or hit the ball down the freeway, should get a few extra meters there. On topic though: I've also struggled with the same problems you are facing. Even when i made great contact i'd carry the ball 220m but the ball would roll no where. All came down to swing plane issues (which im still working out). Even when the ball appeared to be hit straight I was still slightly cutting across the ball. This increased the spin, increased the loft which are two things working against getting roll on the drives. I can't really fix your issue, but all I can tell you is that by sorting out my swing plane so that im now hitting either a straight ball or a draw has given me the distance back in my drives. Plus an added bonus of extra carry on top of that.

#6 kar

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 08:33 PM

Hi AB_LongGolfer, Thanks for the details analysis. I used to use a 10.5 with a regular shaft. When I hit it sweet, it just simply stopped in it on divot - no roll at all. I don't think I'll be convinced to use a higher loft driver. When I switch to a 9.5 stiff shaft, I got a little roll, 4 - 5 meter. At the moment probably 2 - 3 meter if I am lucky. Comparing to my playing companion who has a low trajectory ball flight (probably half the height of my drive), and he would get 20 - 30 meter roll even when we landed around the same area. My ball flight is flat (ie it didn't start low and go up, it just go straight and up) and dome shaped (almost a semi circle). I believe I do hit the ball on the up swing but it usually just go up high and land soft like a loft wedge shot :( I set up to hit a draw everytime but only get 40% draw 40% straight and 20% fade or slide. Hi razaar, I don't understand the principal behind your suggestion :( Hi Crrack, I am interested in how you are working out with your fixes. I think my problem is very similar (straight with a slight cut).

#7 Ignoramus

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 09:09 PM

kar The golf swing has two hinges an upper hinge which is the left shoulder joint and the wrist joints. This is why the left arm stays extended during the swing and the right rolls with a bend in a good golf swing. The ideal is to maintain the same distance spread of the elbows at address for the backswing and the downswing. If the right elbow loses its distance from the left elbow during the backswing it can be left behind unles there is a conscious effort to shift it forward during the downswing. If it gets left behind the only way to square up the clubface is to hinge the wrists to the left, which is a flip.

#8 kar

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 09:34 PM

got it. Thanks razaar.

#9 AB_LongGolfer

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 11:09 PM

Kar: My pleasure I can only provide you the advice as accurately as I can. I wish you luck in your search for more roll on your drives. Just to put launch angle into perspective though. I have a high 180-low 190 ball speed and I use a 9.5 degree driver with a similar shaft as you have now. I think you like many amateur golfers fail to realise exactly how high a driver should be launched to maximise distance. The majority of golfers I see are not even close to the flighting trajectory required to maximise their driver distance, it should not be hit low unless you are super powerful and have an extremely quick ball speed. Please have a look at the trajectory of the following drives to understand what I am getting at: John Daly British Open Carmillo Villegas British Open Tiger British Open Domenic Mazza 16yo LD

#10 Monty85

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 11:50 PM

Hi Crrack,
I am interested in how you are working out with your fixes. I think my problem is very similar (straight with a slight cut).

Sure thing. Although I am far from being a teacher so take what I say lightly. (also, sorry about the length of this, I got carried away) There are two things I've been working on for the past month. [1] getting rid of an "over the top" swing plane and [2] getting my hands turning over correctly. I used to fight these things constantly. If I'd get my swing plane right, my hands would stay open through impact and if I got my hands turned over correctly I'd swing over the top. To correct this, the biggest factor in my improvement has been addressing my set up and take away. I don't know if you’re the same but I'd constantly find myself off balance after a lot of my shots, even the ones hit pure. This was due to being slightly hunched over at address coupled with an inside take away. So all I've done is work on drills to fix these two problems. At the range I'd put a club or something directly behind where my club head should pass over in the back swing and concentrated on keeping a good spin angle while not reaching for the ball. I found that once I managed to get myself in a comfortable position here getting the club in the correct position at the top of the backswing was easier. For me 3/4 of my swing is getting it to the top of the backswing. Once im there and in the correct position I can just unwind and my only thoughts are releasing my hands through the ball and accelerating all the way to the end. Now I find the cut/slice has gone from my driver completely. While my swing still needs work I tend to pull the ball rather then slice the ball now which for me is an improvement.

#11 GPJ_Longdriver

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 11:55 PM

AB .. given the fairly widespread perception that the "better players" use lower lofted drivers and they hit it much further than you're everyday golfer ............ the aim for the regular golfer in recent years ......... has been to improve and to go to a lower driver loft, but use a whippier lighter shaft in order to "throw" the ball up into the air. The latest thinking however ...... which is only recently been getting out to the masses .......... is in fact to do the total opposite. Use a higher lofted driver (to get the initial launch angle) ....... and then use a stiffer shaft in order to get the nice boring trajectory. The OEM's meanwhile seem stuck in providing mainly lower lofted drivers, and going to ever increasing longer and lighter shafts, (which to my way of thinking just makes it harder to square the clubface using a whippy shaft .. and leads to spraying them everywhere). What are your thoughts on which way the average golfer should be looking to go equipment wise in order to gain distance off the tee ? (by just a club spec change ....without doing anything to their swing at that stage etc)

#12 Zenstb

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 12:33 AM

Kar and Crack, I've worked with AB on increasing distance of his long driving and our company has worked with Jason Zuback as well. Read this article about Angular speed. Angular speed is ball compression and the speed we create from create speed the from ground up. This article will help you better understand what I'm talking about. Angular Speed This is another component you need to take into consideration if you striving to increase your distance.

#13 ellimb

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 12:37 AM

GPJ I suppose it depends on the golfer's launch angle in the first place and then choose the loft of the driver. So, what is the ideal launch angle for max. length ?

#14 Groove_Snob

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 12:47 AM

hhmmmm, me thinks you might be wanting to listen to AB's views on the subject a little more, rather than disregardig the too quickly..... but each to their own i guess. :)

#15 ellimb

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 12:58 AM

flight trajectory is not the same as launch angle. Q: what should the launch angle be, to achieve max. distance.




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