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#1 OldMaverick

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 05:08 PM

What is TGM? TGM is the instructor's handbook comprising everything one could possibly do in a golf swing. TGM instructors are thoroughly taught from the book, which has been peer-reviewed in the early 80's for each edition. TGM is more objective than subjective and is oriented toward the laws of geometry and physics. To anyone's eye the most closely complying model has to be Moe Norman, modified. Other great ball strikers were used as models, none referenced in the book by name. It is hands-controlled dynamic-alignments golf rather than pivot-controlled "position" golf. It includes a basic pattern of options for swinging and hitting that should be mastered before making changes in the patterns. In reality, instructors typically change the basic patterns, all of the changes are valid options, usually the release and/or shoulder turn. Most of the Golf School articles here were written by a TGM instructor. The following conversation copied from Foster's thread explains it a great deal.

#2 OldMaverick

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 05:20 PM

From deepdivot, Fossie, what do u see as the difference between xxxxx's teachings and TGM?
Foster sez, well deepdivot they both have their good points more than one way to swing a club. to say one's good or one's bad would do a disservice to golf, i studied TGM for 20 years,i also know xxxxx's beliefs,TGM is not for the player to study it's only for the coach,if you think you can study the TGM book as a player it will be your downfall, but in saying that all golf coaches should know it, it is very helpful. (ed. we (TGMers) beg to differ on that downfall bit. Heh.) cont'd

#3 OldMaverick

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 05:31 PM

deepdivot sez,
So basically xxxxx's swing theory is come in shallow with right elbow tucked in, use ur pivot to square the clubface and finish high (hope I got that right). Could u explain TGM swing that simply or is it a full every technical movement of the swing broken down into a hundred movements?
Foster sez, deepdivot there's no THE tgm swing. The book covers most swing methods. It's an instructor's book. To try to learn from it without an instructor is nearly impossible, as you have to go through all sorts of references throughout the book to find what you want. If you want to know about TGM ask Loren or Dart cheers mate (ed. The book is written tersely, similar to an engineer's draft design document with section/paragraph references to parts already written to eliminate duplication everywhere else it's needed. While reading it you may usually skip the references. After awhile the references start to look familiar and you know what's there or probably is there by the context.)

#4 OldMaverick

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 05:37 PM

Weetbix contributes
Drive the right shoulder down straight towards the target line, then off that platform drive the hands (and therefore the club) down through the ball and out to right field.
(ed. hitting) and,
Swing the hands (and therefore the club) out to right field feeling the pressure between the top of the left arm and left pec at least until after impact.
(ed. swinging. Right shoulder has to go down in both cases. Right shoulder "out" is Over-the-top.) deepdivot asks,
How do they square the club face when hitting out to right field??? And does this mean that they don’t accept a fade as an acceptable. Ball flight?
Loren responds: It only looks like it’s out to right field because you’re swinging on an inclined plane. It’s out to right field because you’re standing beside the ball, not lying on a table horizontal above it. Furthermore, you hit the ball then turf which means the ball was placed on the plane up and back from the bottom of the arc. Therefore, it’s got to go out to right field to travel between impact point and the bottom of the swing arc, under ground. (ed. It's all geometry, not subjective.) The face is squared up when you take the grip in an impact configuration. It’s slightly open for a swinger, Brian Manzella said about 3 degrees open but it varies with club length and built-in hook face. Serendipitous, experimental. For a hitter It’s square to slightly closed. No one can “square the face” while the swing is in progress. No time, plus the conscious mind is not operating in real time. (ed. this part is amended later. Pivot-oriented instruction trusts the pivot to do it. TGM describes it as active involvement of the right forearm.) Draws and fades are done with ball placement and re-gripping open or closed, at impact address. See Golf School article “Impact Fix”.

#5 OldMaverick

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 05:43 PM

Loren responds to Foster's answer about TGM: Foster said it, TGM covers most methods, it’s a handbook for instructors. Build your own from TGM options, or rather, let the instructor build one for you from components that fit what you already have and your tendencies. Have it your way, customized. TGM has xxxxxx covered, though it’s not the preferred components, nor the preferred control. Don’t care what you do as long as you know why, what and how. There are two major differences between TGM and almost any other method of instruction.
  • TGM considers hands-control superior to pivot-control for controlling the geometry. The pivot is only an engine. The hands determine everything about the club through pressure points, by feel. The club disappears. Swing the hands, not the clubhead, with an effective pivot. The geometry is the same, just the control is different. Part of the pivot’s job is to not interfere with the hands, and take the hands where they want to go.
  • TGM is not “position” golf. There are no positions to hit, just dynamic alignments through Address, Top (right shoulder) and Finish.


#6 OldMaverick

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 05:45 PM

Loren responds to Weetbix's description of hitting and swinging: Weeties has kindly given us in two consecutive posts synopses of the two methods of loading the lag, hitting and swinging, respectively. There’s a lot more detail, of course, specific to the two ways. There is a third way, right-arm swinging which is like hitting but with loosened wrists, a bell rope pull by a straightening right arm. Swinging alignments apply. Retief Goosen uses it. They all work on the left arm, two push it and one pulls it. Always, the right shoulder must go down. If it goes out, it’s OTT. It would be nice if it was down the plane angle, at the ball, but not absolutely necessary.

#7 OldMaverick

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 05:46 PM

Loren amends the "clubface squaring up" answer: Re: clubface squaring up: The right forearm squares the hands to their setup position taken at impact address, and that is the straightening right arm. Specifically, the left wrist is squared up to vertical for impact. In impact fix address the back of the flat left wrist and the clubface angle were aligned for direction. And they were oriented to the location of the clubhead on the swing arc at the position of the ball, not low-point or ball separation point. See the oldest Golf School articles "Fix your Swing, parts 1 and 2." for the diagram "Down-and-out Freddie". A creative stroke of genius by Paul Smith. Thus, for a swinger, the clubface is slightly open because the hands are ahead of the clubhead and the clubface will close due to horizontal hinge action. Golf School article "Control your Clubface". The hitter uses angled hinge action. Thus, the clubface will start “lying back” after impact so it must be set square (which in reality is already slightly closed because the hands are ahead) to slightly closed visually at impact. I recommend square and adjust through experience. Pivot-controlled instruction spends an enormous amount of time trying to get the pivot to control geometry. There are very few drills associated with TGM. The pivot clears the way for the hands, which control the geometry. Chip, pitch, punch, punch with finish swivel, total motion, full uninhibited swing are recommended to be done every time in practicing. The pivot doesn’t get worked on until Total Motion, between right forearm parallel to the ground and hands to Top of right shoulder. Less than a full swing, but with the characteristics and the pivot of a full swing. TGM is not bio-mechanics beyond the kinetic sequence; feet, knees, hips, shoulders, left arm, right arm, left wrist uncock, hands roll; and optional variations for choice of pivot, shoulder turn, hip turn, hip action, knee action and foot action. A preferred combination of options is specified. The study of bio-mechanics separately has drills, which should not be used for alignments with TGM's hands-controlled action.

#8 OldMaverick

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 05:51 PM

Deepdivot sez:
Thanks for the info guys I finally have some understanding of what TGM is.
That brings us up-to-date and possibly gets out of Foster's thread, possibly not, and gives a pretty good idea of what TGM is all about. (ed. barely scratches the surface) (Thank you, ed.) Fire away the questions, ask advice, post videos for analysis, ask about what's going on in any other thread, anything you like. Dart or I or TGM-whomever should respond within a reasonable time frame, given there are other things going on.

#9 TheDart

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Posted 29 August 2011 - 06:37 PM

Loren, Very well done. Now I can say that TGM can also be used for tips by anyone. Is is not only an instructors book. It is hard going without help, but that is abundantly available on this site.

#10 HeadPro

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Posted 30 August 2011 - 09:25 PM

Hey TGM Guys - Need your perspective on my student. I have done a pretty extensive analysis so far but would like TGM view. He's a 4 handicap 100 mph club head speed with driver Blows the ball right sometimes Good flexibility with small limitations it right shoulder Have not done a club fit on him yet Has all day to practice with serious goals of turning pro Thanks Front View Back View

#11 OldMaverick

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 01:44 AM

Change right hand to palm grip. Flare left foot out about 30 degrees. Take the grip and all dynamic alignments for impact in impact conditions allowing for the characteristics of the club at hand (built-in hook face, forward shaft lean) to determine ball position relative to the left shoulder. Open hips and shoulders equally about 20 degrees to take the grip and aim the shaft up to the left shoulder joint, the fulcrum of the lever. Both wrists vertical, flat left, bent right, right forearm on plane using the palm grip and bent right wrist in line with the right forearm. Clubface in line with the left wrist so it will be a little open to the target line at ball address here, with the hands ahead. Adjust to mid-body hands location and squared away hips and shoulders for lagging the clubhead away. Do not readjust the clubface angle. It will look closed. Lag the clubhead away instead of lifting it. Let the bending right elbow do the cocking of the left wrist in the backstroke, without cocking the right (using a palm grip). He's currently doing immediate takeaway swivel and cocking the right wrist at the same time. Only the left wrist should be cocked with that grip. I would have the swivel onto the sweetspot plane happen gradually in the backstroke. Right hip doesn't look too bad in the backstroke. Feel the shear forces in the foot, inside ball and inside heel going in different directions. Grip the ground with it. Keep the navel in front of the right foot instep slightly. But the hips slide way too much in the downstroke/forward stroke, leaking power. Need the flared left foot to receive the ground forces in the forward swing and not roll the foot over. Those shear forces will be felt in the outward and targetward directions. Grip the ground with the left foot to get control of the hips. The hips and shoulders should be open the same amount at impact, ideally around 20 degrees but it doesn't really matter how much. LOSE THE SQUAT. Keep the knee bends and the spine angle. The clubhead is thrown away because of it and the hip slide losing ground forces.

#12 HeadPro

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 01:50 AM

Thanks Loren, great confirmation mate.

#13 HeadPro

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Posted 31 August 2011 - 09:42 PM

OK TGM Guys, My turn... Yes, this is my swing. Don't be too hard on me, remember you’re my mates. This is a 7 iron shot hit to 150 meters. Playing under par regularly right now and hitting the ball well, always looking to improve and value your perspective. Back Angle

#14 waffle_iron

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 02:32 AM

Not a lot wrong with that :)

#15 Zenstb

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Posted 01 September 2011 - 04:54 AM

Head Pro, Pretty good, a little bit of lateral slide, hard to tell although your left foot would be slightly rolled and the inside would be slight lifted off the ground the weight is on the outside of the left foot. This is an educated guess. Could caused a few strayed shots here and there.




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