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The Dan Plan


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#31 OnaBogeyTrain

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 08:40 PM

I think AB is on the right track.... If you don't have any of the traits he listed, you will struggle. Clearly I must luck some of them and the talent part cause I've never had a handicap lower than 7. Such is life. dcee2

#32 AB_LongGolfer

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 08:53 PM

dcee2: I think the points I made are crucial to achieving anything whatever the endeavour, be it golf, sport or life. If you want it bad enough, believe you can do it and are willing to put the work in, how can you not come close to achieving it? With loftier goals comes an increased necessity to up the time and put the work into the steps that are required. I personally don't believe anyone can ever say something is impossible, if you want it bad enough and are willing to put in the work while making the necessary sacrifices, how can you not come close to achieving it? I think the phrase 'talent' is a cop out trait that the lazy use to justify not being prepared to work hard enough at it. (I know I am going to get caned for that one.. lol) Mate you obviously have a fair degree of talent to make it to single figures, I could be wrong but I made it to 2 before I burnt out trying and I believe that my step from 7 to 2 was pretty much centred around developing the short game to a higher standard (from 100 metres in) and having a better strategy around the course - putting the ball in the right places, being conservative when the situation called for it, getting a consistant go to shot and picking better places to miss knowing I would have an easier up and down. By no means was I ever in the same league as other guys here or Bowdo, but I believe I maximised my potential by trying to focus on giving myself the best chance to post a good score. Could I have done more? Yes definitely, the chase and the effort just became too great for me personally and it was no longer fun. If you want it dcee and you are willing to do whatever it takes to get it, why can't you achieve it?

#33 lefty731pm

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 09:03 PM

If you want it bad enough, believe you can do it and are willing to put the work in, how can you not come close to achieving it?
Because history has proven it to be a ridiculous concept. There are a lot of people who "really want" to be the next American Idol and a lot of golfers who "really want" to be pros and work incredibly hard and get nowhere. People with genuine talent who achieve something never say that they are living proof that anything is possible. Morons like Lindsay Lohan do. And look at what they have really achieved. And those who crap on about how Nick O'hern was a 2 or whatever and that Poulter wasa 4 or whatever, may as well be talking about hair colour. Each individual has talents and capacities and no amount of desire can compensate for a lack of fundamental physical and psychological traits needed to reach goals.

#34 AB_LongGolfer

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 09:14 PM

Lefty, you are entitled to your opinion but I have seen the complete opposite. I have seen guys with all the talent in the world never make it because they were lazy and didn't have the mental fortitude to achieve. Likewise I have seen guys who were not the most talented but put the time, effort and resources in chasing their dreams and never believing that they couldn't achieve it. Guess what they made it. I feel that I am also living proof of this credo. I am certainly not the most talented but I take advantage of my assets, address my weaknesses by working harder on them, consult people ("experts") who can assist me to cover the aspects that require addressing and I train harder than anyone. Yes I have a level of skill but I work harder than the guys that have all the talent in the world and that is why I can compete with them. If you believe that you can't or won't, you have already found your answer!

#35 lefty731pm

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 09:58 PM

We have all seen people waste ability and we have all seen people exceed expectations, even their own. Every golf forum is full of threads where people set out to achieve a goal which would seem unlikely. It's never "Win a C grade championship" or "get my handicap under 20" or "get from 13 to 9". It's ALWAYS get to "scratch" or become a pro. I am yet to see an example where someone has set a difficult goal get even close. If you read Tom Coyne's book, Paper Tiger, you'll see what dedication can and can't do. There are even threads on this forum where people chronicle their 3 putts and shanks and "lovely" bombs down the middle as if they are inevitably going to become a scratch player, but pay as much attention to their mistakes as their successes, which is the opposite of what one should do - not that you shouldn't learn from your mistakes. I'm not talking about people setting modest goals and achieving them. It shits me that people think that anyone could be a scratch golfer if they had the time or money to go with their desire.

#36 Shimonko

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 12:52 AM

Agreed--I usually bring up American Idol too when discussing this. When an abysmal contestant says they'll practice harder and return next year, the judges say "you're not a dancer and will never be". Sounds harsh, but they're doing the contestant a big favour that he/she won't appreciate until they learn the hard way. The Tony Robbins revolution, saying you can achieve anything if you keep at it, has caused waves of depression with people coming short, wondering how long it's just going to take. Their intuition is telling them something different that what Tony and our lemming society is. Their intuition is correct as it is a crystal ball into their destiny. True champions don't need to hear this bullshit about doing what it takes because their being makes them do this automatically and sincerely already.

#37 AB_LongGolfer

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 01:32 AM

Okay I can understand what you are getting at lefty (and steb to a certain extent). Obviously you are not going to wake up tomorrow and say I am going to be a golf pro without ever playing a game in your life. There has to be a talent base, I never said you don't need any talent. Obviously if you are a 30 handicap and you can't improve on that then you are pushing **** uphill if you are stating you believe you can one day turn pro. If you aim at nothing in life though you will achieve it every time. As long as you can accept that any goal that is worthwhile might be hard to achieve and there is a chance that it won't happen. I would much rather put the hard yards in and know I gave it my all then accept it was futile from the beginning, never have a crack and always wonder "what if". I personally am a believer in striving for what you believe and having an unwaivering desire to achieve it. Yes I might be delluded, yes you might think I am crazy but I can tell you I will get a lot closer than those with the negative attitude that the chances are slim, why bother - this is what you are basically saying and it is the common attitude, particularly in Australia. The world is littered with cases of people who were told they never would and they did on the back of their self belief and commitment to achieve it. Michael Jordan couldn't even make his high school basketball team, by your analogies he should have given it away and become a mechanic. Fortunately for us he didn't and became virtually one of the greatest sportsmen in history. The career I got into had 5000 applications for 30 spots, that is a 0.6% of a chance to get in. By your reckoning I shouldn't have even tried, the chances of it happening were so remote I was more than likely going to fail. Sometimes it comes down to self belief and not taking no for an answer, even if nay sayers like yourselves say it can't be done. What would have happened if I didn't? I reassess where I am and I focus elsewhere but it did because I dared to dream it was possible. I would much rather live my life that way! Will I make it to the Worlds? Will I win an Australian Championship? Will I make it to the finals of the World Championships? Will I win a World title? The indicators strongly point to this being unlikely and yeah I probably will fail. But I will give it every possible shot in the world to make it. I will dare to dream that it is possible. I will come as close to it as I possibly can. I will experience the risk and the adventure. Where will you guys be 5 years from now? Probably in the same spot you are now, achieving the same things, telling others that there is no point chasing a seemingly impossible dream because it is something that happens to other people. Sorry that doesn't do it for me, I am going to go and find out. The negative attitudes of the nay sayers only fuel the fire.

#38 Shimonko

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 01:41 AM

Michael Jordan couldn’t even make his high school basketball team, by your analogies he should have given it away and become a mechanic. Fortunately for us he didn’t and became virtually one of the greatest sportsmen in history.
No, you're not getting it. Yes, people should have told Jordon to give it away--for that is his test. If he has the sincere internal belief he can do it, he won't give a **** what anyone tells him and he will succeed. If those people put doubt into his mind, then he isn't cut out for it. The want and self-belief is just not strong enough.

#39 Danz

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 02:31 AM

The world is littered with cases of people who were told they never would and they did on the back of their self belief and commitment to achieve it.
You could probably multiple that number by 10 of the cases who tried and failed. A lack of talent puts you way behind all those who have the talent to begin with.

#40 AB_LongGolfer

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 06:16 AM

Steb: That's my point exactly, so why is it different for anyone else? If you believe you can, why can't you? Danz: What is talent? Are people born with the skill of swinging a golf club, knowing how to ride a bike, having the skill to driver a car? Funny I thought these were skills that were learned, could be practiced, could be improved on and could be mastered... I understand what you are both are saying and I am not trying to be smart or difficult, I just feel strongly that chalking failure up to a "lack of talent" is an excuse for not being able to apply oneself and giving up at the first sign of adversity

#41 Shimonko

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 06:29 AM

It's where that belief comes from. This Dan guy is basing his belief on the study showing 10,000 hours of dedicated practice will get him there. It would only take another person to come forward next week saying they followed that study to the letter and it didn't work, then his belief will be very crushed. He will probably continue half-heartedly. Compare that to a junior who has a burning desire to get better. He's on nobody's schedule, he makes his own. If his burning desire is indeed strong enough to keep him at it despite the inevitable set backs, then he has a chance. I'm not a believer in 'born talent' but I am a believer in values trained into children when young make the goals feasible or not.

#42 xmaggiex

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Posted 14 February 2011 - 06:36 AM

*Tigers nickname is the ghost because he is never seen on the range* hmmm....he's clearly busy elsewhere :)

#43 thedanplan

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 01:00 AM

Hello all, I was recently pointed towards this thread and I've enjoyed the conversation, some quality dialogue here. I was going to write a bit about my thoughts on talent versus hard work, but I'm no expert, so I'll leave that topic alone. I will, however, be the first to admit that there is a huge mountain ahead of me and it would be far easier to quit and get a paying job, but that wouldn't do anyone any good (except perhaps my girlfriend). How I see it, it's not the idea, but the followthrough that makes a person. And, (promise I'm not trying to sound like a wanker) without trying to make it happen, it's truly impossible. I don't know where I'll be in golf, and life, when the 10,000th hour hits, but I do know that I will hit that mark. Perhaps I'll be shooting 95, perhaps I'll be playing in Augusta (Georgia's my home state). There is only one way to find out. If anyone has any specific questions, please ask away. You can also post them on facebook, if anyone does that. the site is: facebook.com/thedanplangolf on a side note, I lived in Australia for about a year back in 2001 and loved it. I'd love to go back one day!
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#44 Placegetter

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 01:09 AM

"The idea that excellence at performing a complex task requires a critical minimum level of practice surfaces again and again in studies of expertise. In fact, researchers have settled on what they believe is the magic number for true expertise: ten thousand hours." Malcolm Gladwell in "Outliers - The Story of Success." (2008) Good luck with it Dan.

#45 BGH

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Posted 15 February 2011 - 01:14 AM

Great to have you on board to answer questions Dan. 1) What are you doing for cash while you are in training? 2) From your daily updates it seems that for the last 9 months you have been doing an awful lot of putting and chipping. Are you actually going out and playing full rounds of golf much and if so, how is the rest of your swing?




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