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Staked Trees


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#1 cos0131

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 08:18 AM

When a tree/bush has been staked, but the stake is now lying near the tree/bush, and looks that it has been there for some time, ie stake hole is not evident, tree/bush is not small any more, ie over 1 mtr tall and the ties are hanging loose on the trunk and their mark on the tree/bush is not evident any more. Is this still a staked tree? Another is ,if a stake has snaped off near the base of small tree/bush, again it looks obvious that this happen some time ago, tree/bush now leans past the remaining portion of the stake. Is this still a staked tree?

#2 AAA

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 11:13 AM

It may not matter. The R&A have said that the Local Rule giving telief from staked (or otherwise marked) trees must only be used if the tree is both 'young' and 'in need of protection'. I would suggest the LR is no longer valid. In your examples, it sounds to me that the committee are no longer concerned about protecting the trees, whatever their age. I would say they don't qualify.

#3 Belligerant

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Posted 13 March 2008 - 08:36 PM

It may not matter. The R&A have said that the Local Rule giving telief from staked (or otherwise marked) trees must only be used if the tree is both ‘young’ and ‘in need of protection’.

I would suggest the LR is no longer valid.

In your examples, it sounds to me that the committee are no longer concerned about protecting the trees, whatever their age. I would say they don’t qualify.

OoI where can one find that R&A statement? Does it mean that a freshly planted mature tree cannot be protected? Do you mean that the LR is only invalid regarding the trees in question? The stakes remain obstructions.

#4 Rawhiti Chopper

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 02:52 AM

the R&A wording isnt what you need to look at , its the exact wording of the local rule adopted by YOUR club .... basically , theres 4 likely possible local rules .. NO relief Free from trees under 2 clublengths high Free from staked trees Free from trees under 2 clublengths high AND staked And dont forget the excepting to all the above "being that if anything else impedes stance/swing theres no free relief" more or less Local rule aside , you may still ger relief from the stake itself .....BUT the exception applies to the stake also

#5 cos0131

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 06:04 AM

I did suggest in both cases to play two balls and seek clarification afterwards. I would tend to play as lies as the Tree/bushes did look similar to other in the area that were now unstaked. I will check out the exact local rule on Sat, I haven't noticed anything re 'trees under 2 clublenghts'. Thanks for your input.

#6 AAA

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 06:28 AM

the R&A wording isnt what you need to look at , its the exact wording of the local rule adopted by YOUR club ….

basically , theres 4 likely possible local rules ..

NO relief
Free from trees under 2 clublengths high
Free from staked trees
Free from trees under 2 clublengths high AND staked

The approved specimen LR makes no mention of tree height. It simply requires that the tree(s) be identified in some particular way.

#7 AAA

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 06:41 AM

OoI where can one find that R&A statement?

Does it mean that a freshly planted mature tree cannot be protected?

Do you mean that the LR is only invalid regarding the trees in question?

The stakes remain obstructions.

The ruling came to me from the R&A in response to a question I asked them about setting up our course. I was given permission to publish it on the Leith Society. We use small holly bushes to indicate the 150 yard distance. Most bushes are now over 10 years old. But we had 6 new holes built and planted new bushes which we staked. Some members said it was confusing to have some staked and others not. They also said that it would be against the RoG to declare them to be immovable obstructions as they do not satisfy the definition. However a stake or tensioning wires would of course be obstructions in their own right. But RC's comment is then relevant.

#8 Belligerant

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 07:27 AM

AAA, Thanks for your response. The reason I asked where do you find it, is that how do club's apart from yours, know about it. By definition it is not a RoG. I don't doubt you got the ruling but the definition does not include what is released in LS or sent by letter to a particular club. .

#9 AAA

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 10:04 AM

I take your point but the R&A simply clarified what it says as the lead in to the specimen Local rule and Rule 33-8. 33-8. Local Rules a. Policy The Committee may establish Local Rules for local abnormal conditions if they are consistent with the policy set forth in Appendix I. b. Waiving or Modifying a Rule A Rule of Golf must not be waived by a Local Rule. However, if a Committee considers that local abnormal conditions interfere with the proper playing of the game to the extent that it is necessary to make a Local Rule that modifies the Rules of Golf, the Local Rule must be authorized by the R&A. PART B: SPECIMEN LOCAL RULES Within the policy established in Part A of this Appendix, the Committee may adopt a Specimen Local Rule by referring, on a score card or notice board, to the examples given below. 3. Protection of Young Trees When it is desired to prevent damage to young trees, the following Local Rule is recommended:

#10 AAA

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Posted 14 March 2008 - 10:20 AM

AAA,
how do club’s apart from yours, know about it.

This is a perennial problem and there is no universal answer. In the normal course of a club's life such rulings probably do not matter too much as all players will be treated the same (ie in equity). If major (ie non internal competitions) are held on a course there will normally be an inspection by one or more ROs before the event to check on course marking and LRs. Most ROs do a fair amount of networking so the information from such rulings is likely to get about. The really 'big boys' like Paramor are in touch with pretty well everything that the R&A/USGA say that might be significant. Of course the R&A are not making a new rules just clarifying the situation for normal amateur clubs and players.

#11 gotoit

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 05:17 AM

In taking relief from a staked tree today, was told my my playing partner that if I then hit the tree with my shot (not club) that would be 2 strokes penalty for taking incomplete relief. Sounded wrong to me but was too polite to say so. Is that well- meaning rubbish?

#12 Shimonko

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 05:32 AM

You were correct. There is never a penalty for the ball hitting a young tree. It would be like saying you get penalised for taking relief from a cart path if your shot landed back on it farther down the hole.

#13 OldBogey

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 06:27 AM

Gio, you get relief from stance and swing, so that you don't damage the plant with your body or the movement of the club. The ball doesn't come into it, except for the fact that the ball is what you are standing near and swinging at.

#14 RulesDoc

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 06:31 AM

@gio, was there a Local Rule on staked trees? If not, there's only free relief from the stake itself.

#15 gotoit

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Posted 16 October 2012 - 10:41 AM

No local rule, Doc. Cheers all - thought that was the way of it!




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