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Preferred Lies


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#31 languid

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 12:11 PM

Where a course has a Local Rule allowing "preferred lies" of say 30cms through the green, is it permissible to move the ball from the rough on to the fairway if this is within 30cms?

I can't see a definitive response to your question. 

The answer is YES. 


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#32 OldBogey

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 02:30 PM

agree

#33 MaxxOn

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 02:49 PM

They probably read this forum


And ignore everything you post.

#34 OldBogey

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 03:37 PM

And ignore everything you post.

 

Their loss



#35 AAA

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 05:24 PM

I can't see a definitive response to your question. 

The answer is YES. 

Note that this thread was started in 2008. Definitive answers were given at that time.

I can confirm that the official line has not changed since then - PLs are only permitted on closely mown areas.

 

However, in more recent (2015) correspondence with the R&A re the use being made by the PGA Tour, they said their view was now more relaxed. 

 

"That said, and we cannot stress this strongly enough, obviously this should be used sparingly and only where absolutely necessary, e.g. to facilitate play in the winter. If a course is having to do this at other times of the year there is probably an agronomy/course maintenance problem. Using such a Local Rule will probably affect the qualifying status of competitions held on the course…we are not a handicapping body though and cannot advise on that."

 

 

 

The last point certainly affects CONGU and the European Golf Association handicapping systems. I don't know about GA.

 


Edited by AAA, 14 April 2018 - 05:24 PM.


#36 languid

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 09:09 PM

Thanks AAA. Sadly there are many regional courses in Australia that have both agronomy and maintenance issues. Preferred lies through the green are not that common. I know one course not too far away from home that has Preferred Lies through the green all the time. The Course is mostly maintained by volunteers.
This is a sad reality.
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#37 AAA

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Posted 14 April 2018 - 09:14 PM

Thanks AAA. Sadly there are many regional courses in Australia that have both agronomy and maintenance issues. Preferred lies through the green are not that common. I know one course not too far away from home that has Preferred Lies through the green all the time. The Course is mostly maintained by volunteers.
This is a sad reality.

Wow. The fairways must be pretty dreadful. Oh for the opportunity to tee my ball up on a nice bit of grass within 1cl on every shot.



#38 languid

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 08:21 AM

Wow. The fairways must be pretty dreadful. Oh for the opportunity to tee my ball up on a nice bit of grass within 1cl on every shot.

I haven’t played there for quite a while. Fairways were not dreadful and I think PF distance only 30 cm. What happens at such courses is some areas have a lot of trouble with very poor lies . The problems are so widespread that marking GUR is impractical. The rough areas are quite bare, extensive, uneven and loaded with loose impediments.the LIs being all the stuff that drops from the large number of eucalyptus trees.
These course Committees rationalise that the want members and visitors to enjoy their rounds as much a possible and not have a huge percentage of bad lies including playing shots regularly with a stick sitting on the ball or copping a penalty removing the stick.

It is far from ideal. The Course I mentioned has good greens and Tee pads. I can’t recall bunkering. The terrain is on the side of a hill reaching down to a large Dam.
The Course is a really pleasant bush environment. You have to be really fit to walk it and very careful driving a cart. All the carts there are Member owned.

Somehow it survives.

Edited by languid, 15 April 2018 - 08:28 AM.

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#39 pegasus2357

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 10:48 AM

Wow. The fairways must be pretty dreadful. Oh for the opportunity to tee my ball up on a nice bit of grass within 1cl on every shot.

 

AAA

My town has been on level 6 water restrictions for the past 2 months, which means if you want to water anything in your garden it is via grey water, to wash your car it is grey water....

In the past 6 months the golf course would have been lucky to have had 250mls or 10 inches of rain..... we are lucky to have access to a water hole in the river from which we can pump on a limited basis whilst the river still flows. We have maintained our greens and tees and have watered fairways as best we can from 150mtrs in..... they look green but it is basically stalks of grass..... we are now mid way through Autumn and we are running out of time for any rain that we are lucky enough to get to do anything towards getting some growth on the fairways before Winter hits..... so basically we are stuffed.... We have mown the stalks of grass on the fairways twice this year with a rough mower, we have not used our gang mower at all in the past 6 months on the fairways ......

So in places on the fairways trying to find a place to prefer a lie is essentially a waste of time..... we are not the only course with these issues in NSW and all we can hope for is a decent fall of rain in the very near future .....


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#40 rogolf

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 11:44 AM

AAA

My town has been on level 6 water restrictions for the past 2 months, which means if you want to water anything in your garden it is via grey water, to wash your car it is grey water....

In the past 6 months the golf course would have been lucky to have had 250mls or 10 inches of rain..... we are lucky to have access to a water hole in the river from which we can pump on a limited basis whilst the river still flows. We have maintained our greens and tees and have watered fairways as best we can from 150mtrs in..... they look green but it is basically stalks of grass..... we are now mid way through Autumn and we are running out of time for any rain that we are lucky enough to get to do anything towards getting some growth on the fairways before Winter hits..... so basically we are stuffed.... We have mown the stalks of grass on the fairways twice this year with a rough mower, we have not used our gang mower at all in the past 6 months on the fairways ......

So in places on the fairways trying to find a place to prefer a lie is essentially a waste of time..... we are not the only course with these issues in NSW and all we can hope for is a decent fall of rain in the very near future .....

One of the things that these "world-wide" websites give is a chance to understand and appreciate the different conditions and issues in the various parts of the world that affect the game.  We cannot judge decisions made for conditions that we don't understand.  Just read, learn and understand.


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#41 pegasus2357

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 01:49 PM

One of the things that these "world-wide" websites give is a chance to understand and appreciate the different conditions and issues in the various parts of the world that affect the game. We cannot judge decisions made for conditions that we don't understand. Just read, learn and understand.


All good rogolf.... I appreciate your input along with others in this section...

A result of these extreme conditions are match committees struggling to make decisions that meet the rules of golf.... sometimes I think the rules are written on the assumption that all golf is played on manicured fairways, trimmed rough and bunkers that are magnificent...

Ah well back to my drought ravaged course
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#42 rogolf

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 02:26 PM

All good rogolf.... I appreciate your input along with others in this section...

A result of these extreme conditions are match committees struggling to make decisions that meet the rules of golf.... sometimes I think the rules are written on the assumption that all golf is played on manicured fairways, trimmed rough and bunkers that are magnificent...

Ah well back to my drought ravaged course

I believe that the Rules are written such that the game can be played fairly under all conditions.  It is up to the Committee(s) to adjust to local conditions through the approved local Rules.  Players just need to appreciate that the Committee(s) are doing the best they can and play on.  After all, it is just a game, and a great one at that.


Edited by rogolf, 15 April 2018 - 02:27 PM.

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#43 BROWNMAN

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 02:52 PM

My EX club has prefered lies year in and year out on fairways and in the rough...card or club length ,i dont care too much because im simply not there,but i do practice over there still when they are not about,they have effectivley ruined the course,,every time they prefer their lies they take out another bit off grass.......the entire course is "dimpled" lol.......a touch off topic,sorry


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#44 languid

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 10:02 AM

Rogolf, I appreciate your attitude to trying to be understand situations around the world and learn from that. Great!
With the best of intent Committees at the many small, impoverished golf courses in regional Australia just can’t manage with Approved Local Rules only as given in the Appendix.
They don’t bother going to the National body to seek formal approval I think. It would be rare.
I know the NSW Rules head gathered details of all Local Rules in place around the State, a few years ago. I am guessing there would have been a majority response. I provided those from my Club. Included were a few “unapproved Local Rules.” I explained the reasons for having them.
There has never been a follow up from the State Body. I suspect that unless a Local Rule is simply outrageous the State and National Bodies will just go along quietly.
Thanks again for your always thoughtful contributions to the discussions on the Rules Forum. Others including Colin C L and AAA deserve the same respect and my thanks.
This is a great place to learn. In another thread on Rule 1-2 my purpose for initiating it was to get to understand the Rule properly. I think I am close to that with the help that is obvious on the thread.
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#45 pom

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 04:37 PM

All good rogolf.... I appreciate your input along with others in this section...

A result of these extreme conditions are match committees struggling to make decisions that meet the rules of golf.... sometimes I think the rules are written on the assumption that all golf is played on manicured fairways, trimmed rough and bunkers that are magnificent...

Ah well back to my drought ravaged course

I know of a local club that puts in place a local rule allowing tee up on the fairways. Basically because they are like yours are at the moment. Not an approved local rule but a realistic one.


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