Jack
It is a difficult issue to get the head around . To answer your question, a hitting action would have the inner right forearm facing a point directly opposite the player (and maybe a little to the right of the point) face on at the top of the backswing.

Jack,
thanks.

An interesting question about spine angle. I don’t know the answer to that, now that I tried the exercise I mentioned, because I had always assumed the same thing about rotating around the spine angle

I think it has something to do with what happens once you hit the limits of your flexibility.

If I am rotating my shoulders and thinking about horizontal rotation, and keep going with the intention to make a full turn, and at the same time I resist the hip rotation with a braced right knee, I can get into a situation where something has to give for the shoulders to keep turning, and that becomes a movement of my bum around to the left and forward. Nothing good happens from there.

If I do the method from the book, I set up with the intention to make a full shoulder turn but down with the left shoulder, not round. In this situation, a full turn does not swing the bum.

Now, bearing in mind that feel ain’t real and all the usual health warnings, and in the light of your question, what I suspect is happening is that the down rotation feel is stopping me from over-rotating yet still allowing me to feel that I am making a full shoulder turn.

In the context of wanting to control zone 1, this is a benefit.

I should also say that I have not used this much yet, the weather has been lousy here, so time will tell.

If you get the book, I will be interested to hear what you think. I can’t promise anything about the section on drag loading / lag, because I skipped it.

Devon,
I got the book and have had a quick read. I find it hard to follow Toamayo’s line of reasoning on a few of his ideas. He talks about turning shoulders in a vertical plane and yet all the pictures show him turning at way less than vertical. His diagram on p55 compared to pictures on p60 illustrate my point. He does make some good points about the swing plane, one plane versus two plane, even though he considers it of minor importance. I found his approach to the backswing interesting too. Not a great book but an interesting read, none the less.
Thanks for the reference.

Jack,
I agree, when he says “vertical” clearly he means closer to vertical than “level”, rather than literally vertical. I could not move vertical if I wanted to, but I am still using the idea of a more up/down pivot with an orientation slightly behind the ball.

As you say, not a great book, but it had one idea I found useful and I can think of quite a few books that don’t even have that!

Making progress on OTT. I posted a thread about this on Ask a Pro and got some valuable ideas.

For me, part of the answer seems to be to feel the whole of the right side: knee, hip, shoulder. As a whole, not as a set of components.

None of the right side should come out and round, you sort of keep the whole of the right side from going too far too soon, then hit from there.

There is a tendency for me to keep the weight on the right side, when I do this, so there is more to do.

But, and this is the benefit, if you don’t go too far with any of the right side too soon, then your arm and hand action won’t have to compensate, so you can actually hit the thing properly.

I played today with someone I play with a few times per year. Up to now, he routinely out drove me by 30 yards. Today, we were pretty much equal. For me, this is saying that a proper, uncompensated, swing will go further.

I hit all the fairways, but did fat a few fairway shots, due to getting stuck on my right side.

Highlight of the day was a 2 on a par 4!

Dart has posted something that interests me about steering, and the need to have the hands ahead of the ball at impact. I am going to work on this next, not so much because I think I was steering, but because getting the hands ahead at impact will, hopefully, get my weight shifted back to the left side.

Or, I can stick with the Stack and Tilt weight on the left side idea, that I now realise that I forgot about totally today!

I think I have nearly cracked this OTT issue, so feel quite optimistic.

Always a plan…

I might get a chance to have a decent practice tomorrow, so I am thinking about where I am and what I need to work on.

On the full swing, I am basically happy that the key to addressing the OTT issues is to be found in the right side, but I have this issue of a right sided focus leading to me getting stuck on the right leg. This is OK for driving, but leads to fats on fairway shots.

The issue is that historically I have found it hard to shift my weight from right to left early in the transition without also rotating the right side OTT.

So, the first element for practice tomorrow is to look at ways of getting the weight onto the left side without ruining my hard won OTT fixes.

There are 3 ways I want to try:

1: Dart says to work on getting the hands ahead at impact
2: S&T says just leave your weight on the left side
3: Maybe I can find a way to do a shift (Rory is my model for this) without rotating the right side, now that I am much clearer about the right side issue.

The other thing is to do with the short game. We have winter conditions here and I am facing short shots that are exposing my lack of technique.

The first is a very short pitch out of rough. We have temporary greens that might be as little as 4m across, and there might be only a metre of fringe, or none. So, you might be in rough but want only 2-4m of carry. I feel I need to hit down with some power to get out of the rough, I don’t want to leave it in front of me, but I also don’t want the ball to go too far. With wet grass and soft ground as well, quitting and fatting happen too often and then I start to lose confidence.

The other one is a fairway pitch shot, but the grass is dead flat. It has been mowed, but all that has done is iron the grass flat and there is no growth to stand the grass up yet. Plus the ground is soft. There is no problem getting to the ball, but if you are a milimetre fat with any kind of steepness, the leading edge just goes into the mud and you have a total duff.

I have a variety of Vokey wedges, plus a 10 year old Callaway Big Bertha SW with a huge base and a ridiculous amount of bounce.

I also have a couple of basic techniques from Stan Utley: you can hit the ground first a little behind the ball with the bounce, or play a standard shot where you hit ball then divot with the leading hitting the ground first.

I have my TGM options of a mini pivot, a Push and a small Punch (Hit) action. Combined with angled, vertical and horizontal hingeing.

Lots of combinations to try, I am looking forward to trying to solve these tricky short game problems.

Interesting practice today.

The conclusion is that the BB wedge (lots of bounce and a very wide sole) is the best choice for soft / wet conditions. I play to hit the ground behind the ball (a Stan Utley pitch) and then the bounce / sole means that the club slides along the ground and under the ball.

In dry conditions, with the same club, there would be a real danger of thinning because the leading edge is off the ground, but in soft conditions you don’t so much get a divot as a skid depression in the mud. That lowers the leading edge enough to get under the ball.

It also worked in dodgy lies in the rough, on those short pitch shots. You need to be steeper, but again you can aim a fraction behind the ball and let the sole work for you. In terms of powering these shots, a TGM Push seems ideal.

I had less time to work on chips, so this is a bit tentative. However, from good lies where you want to play a Utley chip (ball then turf) you still want a precise contact but very little power. The method that seemed best was a pivot shot, where the feel is of powering the shot with the left shoulder, trying to keep the clubhead in the same position relative to the left shoulder at all times. I think this is more precise because the left shoulder defines the low point of the swing, and so working relative to this adds precision. Just an early sign, not a definite conclusion yet.

On the full shots: The pivot / sequence I am using is definitely my best method so far. My driving was very good by my standards.

For the fairway shots and hitting a bit fat, I don’t think the answer is one fix, but more of a blend. I do need to work on keeping the hands ahead at impact, and this was most relevant on 3w shots. I do throwaway at times, so keeping a FLW and hitting out to the right is also a factor. Shifting weight a bit less to the right also helps. Hitting down more also helped. Also, ball position might need to be adjusted back a few cm.

Devon,you say you aim behind the ball on short pitch shots,give yourself a bit of practice FUN, go somewhere where the ground is bare and firm 1.scratch a line on the ground at 90 deg to target line,2 sit yr ball on the line 3 heres the fun part,when your ready to chip or pitch move your eye focus to a point 3”to 4”in front of the ball(target side) and hit the shot normally

If your set up is all good etc keeping r/wrist in correct condition etc some interesting stuff will happen…..have a play…exploration is fun

PS….have a listen the the sound of the contact

ENJOY

Brownman,

I would need to take a plane to go somewhere where the ground is bare and firm.

I think I know where you are coming from, that style of play would create a lot of compression and backspin.

I have Stan Utley’s books on the short game, and in those he advocates using the bounce and a shallower angle of attack. It is just one way of doing things, I am not saying it is the holy grail.

But having played at a links course (also soft and wet) this week, and then gone back to my muddy parkland home course, and experimented, I am fairly sure that it can make sense to adjust type of shot and even type of wedge to suit conditions.

I forgot to mention that I spoke to our club champion yesterday (he plays off scratch) and asked him whether he used bouncy wedges in the wet and he said no. I asked our club pro, and he said “bounce is your friend”.

I will give your method a try next season, thanks for the suggestion.

I have rambled on about various theories and experiments in this thread, so I thought I would summarise what I am currently doing – my pattern in other words.

Grip: left hand, have moved the grip from the base of the fingers to a semi palm position, in order to get the left thumb more aft and allow the right hand to get behind the club. The grip changes allow me to get my right forearm more in plane with the shaft, closer to the ideal Flying Wedges.

Power / action: the sense is of hitting hard with the right forearm. The right hand feels completely different. I had no real sense for the right hand at the start of this journey, now I feel like it is pushing the aft of the grip

Pivot / timing / sequencing: the Hitting action is totally different and I needed to eradicate many sources of OTT. The single best tip was from Pete Croker’s “The Hit”, which was “don’t chase the left shoulder”. The key to hitting is to be slow from the top with the arms, and that means that everything else in the pivot (knees, hips, shoulders) must not race ahead, or else you are OTT.

The new feel is that I intend to whack the heck out of the ball, but put all of that intention into the right arm, NOT the pivot. Make a nice turn back, then keep all the right side from starting down until I have started down slowly with the arms.

Extensor action is a wonderful thing, it sorts out a lot of flaws. TGM talks only of right arm extensor action, but The Hit also talks about left arm extensor action. Right arm only or both, I am not sure, but extensor action is a winner.

The intention is to hit the ball out to the right of the target line, and hit down on the ball (except for the driver). I play for a push draw.

Plenty more to do, but that is what I have learned so far.

Boy,are you well on the way Devon,I thump the hell out of it with driver also…............i keep the swings with all clubs pretty much the same…...............HOBO…............its all good as there are inbuilt CHECK REINS.cheers

I decided that I needed a period to just let this pattern settle down, then see what I need to do next.

I have noticed a definite improvement in my driving, both distance and accuracy. The key is to start down slow and retain the pivot during the transition. That is the biggest difference compared to swinging, IMO. With Swinging, you start fast and with the pivot leading, with Hitting, you start slow and with the arms leading.

I have been struggling with my fairway shots, but I think I have worked out what was going on. I don’t think I was actually making the new swing with long fairway shots at all, I was starting down too quickly with the wrong pivot sequence, a blend of old and new, in other words. Once I really focussed on making a slow transition etc with my 3w, just like the driving, then the 3w started to work properly.

The pivot only chip idea turned out to just be a feel for that particular day. Sometimes that happens, you get a feel for a shot and it seems to be wonderful, but another day and the feel is gone. I have gone back to my mini hitting action for chipping.

What is working well is the Big Bertha sand wedge in the wet conditions. The conclusion seems to be that in normal conditions you use lots of bounce in the bunker and less bounce on the turf. In wet conditions, you need low bounce and a “leading edge in first” action in the wet sand to get the club under the ball, but want maximum bounce on the turf to prevent a horrible fat. I found this reversal of techniques interesting, and think this will be an area for further study at some point next season.

Whenever I try to get my hands ahead more (one of the other things I wanted to try), I get a horrible weak slice, so I need to work out what this means. I suspect I am losing FLW, or perhaps chicken winging the left elbow.

Talking of chicken winging the left elbow, my putting has gone off due to lack of attention. Played 17 holes yesterday with a chicken wing left elbow before I realised why I was putting so badly. I was putting like a pro about 4 weeks ago, this game will get you one way or another!!! I need to remember to keep my putting in tune with some practice no matter what else I am working on.

Back to golf after nearly 2 weeks. Still letting the hitting action settle in without trying for too many changes.

I was pleased to be able to take a pattern and then go and put it into play after a break. I think that is the best part of all of this TGM stuff, you can use the terminology to define a pattern, write it down, and then it is ready to use after a break. In the past, a break might have disrupted my game much more than I experienced today.

Got the feel today first by focussing on “not chasing the left shoulder”. I need to do this to prevent myself from falling back into my old OTT action.

I also started to build a preference for left arm extensor action. TGM talks a lot about right arm extensor action, but I find that the right arm extensor feel somewhat conflicts with bending the right elbow. By applying a bit of left arm extensor action, it allows the right arm to feel the bending action. That, in turn, allows you to takeway in a more orthodox TGM manner (for hitting).

I put a second BB club in the bag, swapping the 10i for my 46 vokey wedge. I use this for chipping, and I feel that these will become my weapons of choice for the rest of the winter, while the course is soft and muddy.

The other focus today was to start down slow and make sure I was using the pattern on the shots from the fairway. That helped, I did not fat any.

I am going to stick with these thoughts for a while longer, and turn my attention to the Lynn Blake putting DVD that I have not looked at yet.

Lynn Blake Putting:
This DVD is very interesting, if you like TGM. It takes a TGM view of putting, so rather than advocate a particular method, it breaks methods (in general) down into the component parts such as hinge action, how much acc 3 angle you use, whether you power the shot with a pivot or with the right arm etc.

TGM had already been influencing my putting, as I had discovered that I could putt quite nicely thinking of the left arm and shaft as a primary lever which I held in line and then pushed with the right arm.

I found the most challenging aspect of the DVD was the idea that you either power with shoulder rotation OR you power with a right elbow / arm push.

LB says you should either keep the shoulders still and power with the right arm, or the other way round, and that most people fall into the trap of using some undefined combination of arm and pivot power.

Looking in the mirror, I can see that my shoulders move even when I putt with a right arm push and I am not sure whether I want to go to the trouble of trying to eliminate this shoulder movement.

I can’t play right now because my course is flooded, so this might be a good time to get into some putting technicalities. I will work on these LB / TGM ideas at home and see if I can find a well defined putting method.

I have been working on putting using TGM principles as illustated by the Lynn Blake DVD.

I have been making short putts, about a metre, aiming at a second ball. What I am working on is getting these very accurate in terms of line, and trying to see how the various components like hinge actions or pivot power versus right arm power and so on affect my performance.

My initial shock was to find that I would hit bad putts left and right at random intervals. This has made me think quite a bit, and I think I have found some useful ideas, though I am sure that all of this comes under the heading of having understood something rather than having discovered something new and original.

For short putts, the absolutely critical thing is the angle of the face of the putter at impact. The path of the putter is less important, the loft or de-loft is less important.

When you take out random errors like misalignment or loss of stability, I think there are two underlying persistent issues that we face.

The first, and simplest, is a natural desire to see where the ball is going. If you look too soon, you tend to rotate (knees and or shoulders) and so hit left.

The other one is a tendency to block and miss right. The underlying problem seems to be that the hands get ahead of the putter head. I think that there are a few reasons why this tends to happen, and they all come down to the angle of the right wrist changing.

Assuming you set up with the face aligned perfectly, the hands are where they are relative to the face (forward press or not, for example), and the right wrist has an angle. If, at impact, you have the same right wrist bend, then (unless you have twisted the grip or moved your body) you will have the same face angle and make a straight putt.

But if the wrist angle decreases (meaning you bend the right wrist more), then the hands will be a little further ahead at impact and the face will be a little open, causing the ball to go right.

I think there are a few reasons why there is a tendency to bend the right wrist

1: On the takeway, there is a natural tendency to want to move the putter head, and it is easy to do this by bending the right wrist a fraction more as part of the backstroke
2: When you transition from backstroke to forward stroke, the inertia of the putter head will resist the change of direction and tend to bend the right wrist
3: On the forward stroke, as you push at pp 1, you can buckle the primary lever a fraction, again bending the right wrist a fraction more.

I have found these ideas helpful

a: don’t takeway by pulling with the right arm (that leads to 1), instead push back with the left hand
b: use the right forefinger to feel and resist 2. This is really using pp3, but my point is to have the right forefinger far enough down the grip to have some useful leverage.
c: have a sense that you want the putter head to pass the hands (I got this from my Stan Utley putting book). You can rehearse this by looking at the shaft as you make a practice putt, you want the shaft to arc, moving the hands relatively little).
d: even on short putts, make sure the hands go back a little (not just the putter head). This gives you some room to move the hands on the forward stoke.
e: make a smooth transition and feel a little pressure at pp3 (this helps 3)

My overall approach now is

If I miss left, I peeked and moved
If I miss right, I bent the right wrist

That gets me working on not moving and on keeping the right wrist stable.

There are other ways to miss, but they seem smaller and random compared to these problems.

The putting has improved (on the carpet, only direction, only short putts) so I think the process effort has been worthwhile.

Hopefully the rain will stop before I drive myself mad with putting technicalities.

Devon,
I had to laugh at your carpet golf comment, I recently had an enforced season of carpet golf too. I was recovering from surgery, so no proper golf for 12 weeks. Like you, I took the opportunity to practice my putting which was one of the weakest parts of my game.

I found my lack of consistency was pretty much as you describe, with wrist movement being the main culprit. Consequently I adopted the following strategy.

1. Flat left wrist with NO wrist cock on back swing
2. Clutch right hand grip with fully bent wrist to prevent any wrist movement on back swing
3. Very, VERY small back swing
4. Use shoulder turn and arms through impact
5. Vertical hinge on follow through
6. Use PP#1 for piston action push

The small back swing is critical. In fact, my putting action is more a push, as you would with a broom. Takes a little practice to get this action but it works wonders when you get used to it.

One other technique that I use, that is somewhat different, is that I look at the hole when I putt. There are several advantages in this.

1. It helped me overcome the yips
2. I can concentrate on the line and distance
3. Don’t have to worry about head movement

Once you set your putter up square to the intended line of your putt, there is no need to look at the ball. However it is very useful to look at the target line as that is the line that the vertical hinge will follow.

I like to compare looking at the hole when putting, to throwing a dart at a dartboard. You don’t look at the dart when you throw it, do you?

Great thread, keep it up.

Jack,
always good to hear from you.

Glad that we are both on the same page with wrist action in putting. I was interested to see what you worked on to sort it out. I suppose the key is to control the wrist action and there are a number of ways to do that.

I wanted to come back on your point about looking at the hole.

I believe Johnny Miller won the British Open looking at the hole, so you are in great company!

I’ll give you a variation that works for me: on breaking putts, I look at the ground on the path I want the ball to take about 10cm in front of the ball. It does not have to be precise, because the benefits are exactly the same as you describe, but with the added benefit that sometimes (on breaking putts) looking at the hole can drag you back from the line you want and you under borrow.

BTW, we got a break in the weather for one day and I managed to get out to try this putting and I was thrilled, the direction control was way more accurate than I had been getting and I was holing out nicely into the centre of the cup.

Devon,
I feel for you mate, I won’t gloat by describing the weather here:-)

You’re right in the case of a breaking putt. In those instances, I pick the line in which to to start the putt and visually extend it to a point approximately the same distance as the hole. You can usually pick some sort of distinguishing feature to focus on. When there isn’t, I line up with something across the green. I find it most important to visualise the line because that is the line that PP#3 has to trace on the follow through, even when there isn’t any break.

Its interesting how you can have all this sorted on the carpet but when you are playing, its so easy to forget to check all the boxes. Now if I miss a putt, its usually because I lose concentration.

Still raining. It is not just wet, we have floods. It is not just that the course is too wet to play, the roads are blocked.

So, I have been working on chipping using Almost Golf balls on the carpet.

I have been experimenting with various ways of chipping, rather like I did with putting. I have not finished this, but something that might be controversial has occurred to me.

Not all, but quite a few, teaching systems try to teach from putting, to chipping, to pitching to the full swing. The theory is that you can learn a fundamental like a FLW from putting, then that carries into chipping and beyond. You learn a simple pivot and perhaps some hinge action with chipping and that carries into pitching. With pitching, you learn wrist cock and lag. And so to the full swing.

Up to this point that has all made sense to me, but now I am having doubts.

When I was working on putting, it became clear to me that the way you choose the various putting elements came down to the ones that controlled the angle of the face of the putter the best.

Now I am working on chipping, face angle is the least of the problems, because what matters most is not fatting or thinning. You need a quality of contact, which means controlling the low point.

Optimising chipping, it seems to me, is a search for the best way to ensure a quality of contact and that involves controlling the path of the clubhead in a vertical dimension.

The challenges are quite different between putting and chipping.

As I worked on putting and now on chipping, I started from the position that since I was using a hitting action for my full swing, it might be best if my putting and chipping were also powered and controlled in a similar way, but with accs 2 and 3 zeroed out. I thought that it would be best if putting, chipping and full swing followed similar patterns, following the philosophies I mentioned at the start.

What I am actually finding is that pivot power is working better at chipping because it allows better control of the height of the club and so the contact. But in Putting, the hitting action works better because it is better to keep the body as still as possible.

Maybe the teaching philosophies are only meant for the first time through from the beginning, for a beginner. But now that I am trying to optimise various aspects of my game, I am starting to think that each category of shot needs to be looked at separately.

Counting my blessings at the moment, because looking on the news, there are lots of people with homes flooded out. Not being on the course is a small inconvenience in comparison.

Back to chipping. Like putting, what I am looking for is an understanding of what is going on and what is important.

I have changed my mind about what is important, it is not the position of the low point, it is the height of the arc that the club takes. Too low and you fat, too high and you thin. To some extent moving the low point forward and back has a similar effect, but the low point is defined by where the left shoulder is and that is relatively easy to control. In contrast, the height of the arc needs to be accurate. I reckon that you have about 5mm of acceptable variation in height from an OK thin to an OK fat. This is a small margin of error.

I have tried to understand what causes a tendency to fat, and what I am looking for are factors that systematically tend to lead to the club coming in too low. I reckon my fat/thin ratio is about 90/10 on chipping so there must be some systematic reasons that bias the shots towards fat.

Tentatively, I think I have found 5.

1: if the primary lever is set up with a kink in it, and then straightens, it will lengthen: fat
2: if acc 3 is set up with an angle and then loses some of that angle, the club will drop: fat
3: if you set up without proper extensor action, then stretch in the downswing, you lengthen the arc: fat
4: if you set up with the weight of the club being taken by resting on the ground, as soon as you takeway, it will drop: fat
5: even if you set up with the club lightly touching the ground and all of the other 3 causes eliminated, you are still too low because you don’t want to hit the ground where you are setting up. You want to come in 1-2 mm higher and first hit the ground at a point about under where the ball is sitting. This needs an adjustment of some sort.

I think I can fix these 5 in my setup. 1,2 and 3 can be sorted out by holding the club out in front of me: get the shaft in line with the left arm, let the left wrist uncock naturally due to the weight of the club, and push on the left and right extensors.

Then lower the club into the address position and only lightly touch the gound (4). Then I still need a fix to raise the arc a tiny fraction. My fix (at the moment) is to set up with the ball nearer the toe of the club, because as I swing down with the club on the correct path, it will be a little further forward and so a tiny fraction higher.

There is still going to be shot to shot variation, all I am trying to to is cut out things that create a systematic bias in one direction, ie things that tend to create a fat. My hope is that if I can shift the errors to the point where the fat/thin ratio is 50/50, then that will be better than I am at present.

I’ll call this the “5 fix setup” to remind myself.

Preliminary results are very encouraging (just on the carpet I should stress).

I am now going back to the various power options to see how they work in combination with the 5 fix setup.

A break in the weather and a chance to go out and play. I had quite a list of things to try.

Ref previous posts: the putting is a lot better and the 5 fix setup does help with the chipping, so the carpet work has come up with some improvements.

Changing tack, I decided to buy Pete Croker’s step by step videos. I have been using his ebook “The Hit” and getting something from it, so thought I would stump up the cash and get the whole deal from Pete. They are not cheap, but a lot less than the fancy new driver I was trying today, so I figured that they would probably be a better investment.

Don’t tell Pete, but I have not started at the beginning! What I was specifically after was to understand the hand action and release.

The context of this, as anyone who has read my thread will know, is that I have been a lifelong heave and hold off, OTT, player. If you play like this, every time you try to release the club you lose a golf ball (left going left). Consequently, the biggest thing that I knew that I did not know was hand action and release.

The great news is that among all of Pete’s material is what I was looking for, an absolutely clear explanation of the left hand and right hand action.

Needless to say, I was not doing anything like this, and had failed to understand what I ought to be doing from TGM, so kudos already to Pete for a clear explanation of this topic.

I will certainly go through from the beginning, but the next step is to get this hand action working and see what happens.

Devon,
Have been watching some of the floods on our local news here, good thing you aren’t in those areas that are under water. Its not good for the carpets you know:-)

Talking about chipping on the carpet, Mrs Devon must be a very understanding person. Wouldn’t get away with that here.

Interested to know what PC says about left hand and right hand action. Any chance of a brief overview?

Cheers
Jack

Jack,
Good one!

OK, good timing for a comment or two about PC’s step by step hand action, since I gave it a try today.

Pete has a couple of things going on, and the combination – I think – is key to getting any real benefit from acc 2 and acc 3.

Part one is the right shoulder. I have looked at more of his steps and he really works hard with the pivot and has an assymmetrical action. The backswing shoulder turn looks normal, but in the transition, the shoulder (and right hip) do not go forward at all. The right shoulder rocks down (left shoulder goes up, not round).

Part two is the hand action. Again, the backswing looks normal, but in the transition there is a definite laying down of the clubshaft.
Try it without a club, take a backswing with the hands close but not gipped together, and at the top of the backswing, the palm of my right hand is facing mostly forward, perhaps a little to the right and maybe a little up. In PC’s action, in the transition, the right hand lays down more so the palm is facing far more to the sky. This has the effect of moving the right elbow forward.

I should use TGM speak. When the right hand rotates to the right, HK calls this turned, so PC is advocating an additional turn in the transition.

Now comes the really strange part. From such a turned position, you would want to Roll back to square at some point on the way down. PC shows this roll as happening way later than I was doing. The right hand stays fully turned way down into the downswing, and may even turn a little more on the way down, as the right hand uncocks.

The combination of this hand action and the shoulder pivot means that your body (shoulders) are facing way to the right as you bring the hands down and your right hand looks like it is karate chopping sideways in the plane. The effect this has is to keep the plane of motion of acc 2 in plane for a long time.

After that, you release which means you roll the left wrist back to square late into the downswing.

I’m really not sure I am explaining this very well.

What it feels like is: you lay the club down in the transition and you leave the shoulders turned to the right, the hands and club come down very much from the inside and from there you roll and finish the uncocking as the release.

There are 2 powerful OTT fixes here: you don’t move the right shoulder forward, and you don’t roll the club outside with a right forearm roll.

I tried this today, and to begin with had a high weak fade because the face was still open at impact.

As the round developed, I started to get a feel for what is going on. You don’t ever feel any roll in the right arm, you only roll with the left arm. The right arm just pushes down a line from the inside and the club goes round the corner automatically.

This is the first description that I have ever come across that ever made sense to me in terms of understanding how acc 2 could actually work. In every other way I have seen, you never keep the hands in the plane long enough.

Trying this today, I realised that I really wanted to roll the right forearm and square the club quite early in the downswing, and so this really means that I have been hitting with acc 1 and acc 3 only.

With this PC hand action, I can see how to get acc 2 into my action, but it feels very different. Having said that, I got the ball round the course fairly well.

My hope is that I might be able to move from a 1,3 action to a 1,2,3 action, and gain some distance with Pete’s approach, but I can’t say for sure yet whether I have gained anything.

I did get one quick grip tip from his early steps as well today. I use an interlocking grip and so just jammed the interlocking fingers together. PC says that you need to hold the grip in the fingers of the right hand and that interlockers won’t be able to fully interlock. I tried and adopted this immediately. It helps me get the pad of the right hand lower down the left thumb, and that helps get the right forearm closer to the shaft plane (an earlier topic of discussion).

Does this make any sense at all?

Yep, you have got it right, finally. Getting it to work mechanically as a consequence of what has occurred in the upswing should be your focus. A tip – it is the reverse of the upswing. The work is all in the takeaway/ upswing.

Devon,
I’m really puzzled now. Are you making a concious effort to roll the wrist through impact? Sorry if I have missunderstood.
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Jack,
yes, but ONLY feeling this in the left forearm. I’m nervous about this too.

Since you asked the question, I have consulted TGM.

I believe you are swinging and I am hitting.

According to HK, I should be using 10-18-C Single and you should be using 10-18-A Standard.

However, that adds my confusion to yours, since you should be turning and cocking then rolling and uncocking and I should just be cocking and uncocking.

Oh well, this is a journey.

PC’s video just is what it is, he does not label it Hitting or Swinging. Now you have raised the question, perhaps it is Swinging. I was assuming it was Hitting because I was following his ebook The Hit, which is definitely Hitting.

Going back to what I thought I understood from PC’s video. You definitely turn back, actually quite a lot because of the lay back. Then you hold that turn pretty much all the way down and that allows the uncocking to happen in plane which, if I have understood it correctly, allows acc2 to release. Once you are doing this, unless you roll the left forearm into impact (as I discovered) you just hit a high slice.

Glad you asked that Jack, I’ll ask Pete on his thread.