Yep sorry mate i must have started writing that before you posted yours…. You are dead right.. Wish I saw it before I mumbled on with that novel!!

Thanks for that post RTL.

I started doing it more in comp because I could do it in social rounds with no pressure, but failed when it counted. I needed the kick in the pants (shrugs).

Still suffer from that : )

Yep sorry mate i must have started writing that before you posted yours…. You are dead right.. Wish I saw it before I mumbled on with that novel!!

It’s good. I liked what you said about the 60/40 rule.
Not sure how I’d quantify it though if I was 160 out in the slight rough.

It’s not like I would have practiced that shot enough times to know what the % chance is that I’ll hit the shot correctly.

But I understand the theory. Maybe you can go a bit deeper on how you applied it?

Also, just out of curiosity. When you have a week off how much would you practice? Well at least I assume you practice more in a week off.

That’s an example. And there are a billion different variations on the above.

The subject is personal par.
And I think one of the best descriptors AB used was hitting a shot you feel comfortable with.

I am really going to start thinking about that.

The only time your example comes into is if I reflect back and think. “right, I changed clubs there (or shot type) because I wasn’t comfortable. Why wasn’t I comfortable? I need to practice that shot so that I get comfortable”.

But not on the course. I’m not going to make personal par doing that.

Vinum_coupe,
Have a playing lesson with Fergy, they are fantastic he’ll teach you how to play and think out there, he could play in his day.
Have a coffee with him as well, ask him how he got good and pull out your note pad and write it down.

So what everyone is on about is course management or self management (same thing).. I do think that two putts has a point IMO but I understand what ab is saying too… Im with two putts to a certain degree, your not gonna get any better if you don’t push the limits and step out of your comfort zone but the only way you do this is in practise and in social hits, so when it becomes game time your confidence is slowly built to hit the shot when it matters.. I undstand what ab is getting at and is very wise to play within your means and and save shots with head, yes your handicap will come down a few shots as well as your score but the problem I see with it is you will then get to the stage where you don’t have that stroke on the hole or you lose your 2 shots on the par 5 .. Now what? Your not any better then you were in relation to your shot making ability because you have been plotting your way round and learnt to score which is great but are you actually a better player ... So what happens then You have less shots up your sleave and the same repertoire…. I think the answer is to Practise more and work out your limitations.. Work on the 60 40.. If you can do it 60% of the time go for it.. If you cant, choose another shot, then go back to that in Practise and hit to you feel comfortable to hit in comp…Now you are a better and have the confidence to hit that shot that has been holding you back.. Only my opinion and probably wrong, just the way I did it..
But I do know this for a fact, if you really want to get better with your long game and your agressive pin seeking is to go Practise Practise Practise your short game.!! This allows you to be more aggressive with what you see and your clarity of thought because your not worried about missing it, you know your short game is great and is just another way you can make birdie by chipping it in or dunking the trap shot from the short side.. Good short game makes you a better ball striker..

Great Post RTL,
You hit the nail on the head PRACTICE.
Most people don’t get better because they don’t know how to practice properly or never practice.

Secret to golf is how you practice to improve.

I actually have a plan to do that. Another poster here also gets taught by Bryan and wants to do it.

One of the things I was just thinking about was the lack of lessons I have had that reflect an actual game of golf.

I.e I have never had a lesson on what to do when I am 150 out and in the fluffy first cut. Which happens a lot in a game of golf for me.

Do I open the face and allow for the club head to be turned through the grass?
Do I aim slightly left of the flag and allow for the fact the grass may not close the club face?
Do I have to take an extra club in this scenario?

They are all questions I dont have the answers to.
It’s probably the shot I am faced with the most often. I have no confidence that I’ll play it well. And yet I’ve never asked to be taught how to play it.

Quite crazy when you think about it.

Yep sorry mate i must have started writing that before you posted yours…. You are dead right.. Wish I saw it before I mumbled on with that novel!!

Glad you didn’t read his reply first. Would have missed out on a very good novel! :-)

I think your distinction between practice, social and comp play is important.

I have Phil Mickelson’s short game video. I’ve also watched a few Ben Crane YouTube videos talking about the short game. Lots of good keys that I will be using to tweak my game going forward. Particularly breaking the wrists, and using the bounce. Interestingly (for me at least) while I don’t remember Phil specifically talking much about how to use bounce his thought of keeping the club head moving the same way for as long as possible through the impact area, and the slo mos he uses to show the club head moving through the ‘impact condition’ show how getting the bounce into the ground through the ball is critical. Ensuring that the leading edge doesn’t dig in. Fos’ long game instruction has been leading me to the same release on full shots.

Anyway, bit off topic! Hijacked my own thread.

Will go have a look for video of rtl’s short game for inspiration! :-)

I’m not going to disagree with people on this subject. Practice will always win over any theory, stratergy or fantastic new piece of equipment.
My thoughts however are for players, like myself, who may not get the time or money to entertain these things. A plan or ‘personal par’ concept may be just the ticket. It doesn’t seem to ask, can you or are you capable of anything. It basically states using the information we have accessible to us as to how we should try and score each hole…...anywhere.
So any of us who aren’t off 2 for instance have a personal par of bogey on the most difficult hole on the course. Grab out any scorecard and look at that hole. Add one stroke to that par and ask yourself if the last shot in can get you closer to the pin IF you play for personal GIR rather than actual.
Most weekend hackers can benefit from a practical plan. Your not bound to it.
I agree that shortgame is important. If you play this system you’ll find you’re playing more 30-60m shots due to the extra stroke(if you’re off 18)
No plan is the same for everyone. At least if your a once a week golfer you can use this system to score and learn. Just my opinion.
I’d currently be spending my afternoon after my round in a bunker until dark. My wife and 5 kids wouldn’t be overly appreciative of it….I think. ;)

Yep sorry mate i must have started writing that before you posted yours…. You are dead right.. Wish I saw it before I mumbled on with that novel!!

Glad you didn’t read his reply first. Would have missed out on a very good novel! :-)

I think your distinction between practice, social and comp play is important.

I have Phil Mickelson’s short game video. I’ve also watched a few Ben Crane YouTube videos talking about the short game. Lots of good keys that I will be using to tweak my game going forward. Particularly breaking the wrists, and using the bounce.

It’s interesting that Steve Bann mentions that to Hee Young Park in a lesson.
Have a look

http://www.youtube.com/watc...;feature=related

I actually have a plan to do that. Another poster here also gets taught by Bryan and wants to do it.

One of the things I was just thinking about was the lack of lessons I have had that reflect an actual game of golf.

I.e I have never had a lesson on what to do when I am 150 out and in the fluffy first cut. Which happens a lot in a game of golf for me.

Do I open the face and allow for the club head to be turned through the grass?
Do I aim slightly left of the flag and allow for the fact the grass may not close the club face?
Do I have to take an extra club in this scenario?

They are all questions I dont have the answers to.
It’s probably the shot I am faced with the most often. I have no confidence that I’ll play it well. And yet I’ve never asked to be taught how to play it.

Quite crazy when you think about it.

Vinum,
So many people don’t invest in playing lessons, the best thing you can ever do is have your coach go out there with you and see you play. He’s only going off feedback that you give him, which is really the blind leading the blind.
What we think we are doing, to what we are really doing out there are worlds apart.
What’s the point in having a great golf swing if you don’t know how to play the game out there. Waste of time and money really.

My advice is invest as much as you can in getting as many playing lessons as you can.

Ok, I’ll get it organised.

For god sake, who ever said anything about not practicing? The OP was a question regarding information I posted regarding playing.

But let’s get real here for a second the average guy playing golf…
Full time job? Probably Monday to Friday 9 to 5. Family? Probably wife and kids that require attention after work. On the weekends this poor bastard only gets time to get out of the house and play one game of golf a week, the rest of their weekend probably revolves around household duties and family commitments. Now how is this poor bastard supposed to fit in time for training as well. Get off the grass guys! What is he not allowed a way to improve?

I have the luxury of heaps of practice time. RTL is a full time golf professional he has the luxury of heaps of practice time, it is his job! Zen runs a friggin golf company, he has the luxury of heaps of practice time. The average bloke above doesn’t!

I created my concept of personal par to give people something to work on while they are playing. The guy who gets to play once or twice a week if he is lucky. Nobody shows handicap golfers how to play handicap golf, I want to change this.

Yes there is a practice component to it. But it is smart time efficient practice giving guys the most bang for their buck on limited time schedules. Most golfers don’t practice to play golf, they practice to play golf swing – always working on technique, always working the “rake, drag and fire” method of mindless practice on the range. Little wonder why their games fall apart between practice and the course!

The average golf handicap is 15.2 and the average golf score is in the 90’s. For the majority of handicap golfers getting to single figures and having the ability to break 80 would be a dream come true. Do you need to learn to “work” the ball to tight pins to become a single figure golfer? Nup. Hell I got to plus 1 and I can’t hit a controlled draw. I play with the shot shape my swing provides me on the day and I get it around smart. I concentrate my practice on the skills that give me the most bang for my buck when I play (that is also part of the personal par concept)

Now I disagree that a guy can’t get improvement from learning to play smart and focussing on hitting the shots he can hit right now. To walk you must first learn to crawl, if you cannot hit the basic shots with precision and confidence, what chance do you have to hit the more complex ones with any skill or confidence? Your skills naturally improve with experience and for the guy who has zero time to practice, this is how he has to do it IMO.

I am sorry with a full time job I get a decent wage, but with a wife, 2 kids and a good mortgage, I personally don’t have the endless amount of cash to afford practice balls, membership fees, green fees and then stretch it out to regular paid lessons and then all the systems of golfing tuition about the place. I am sure I am not the only one!

Quite frankly my idea is for the average bloke. The bloke that wants to improve, wants a method that will allow him to go out shoot the best score he can on the limited amount of time and budget he has. It allowed me to improve when I was just a handicap golfer starting out. It allowed me to get to single figures easily, and it is still the basis for what I do today. If the average bloke has practice time, my idea will also show him exactly what golfing skills are important and how to practice in the most time efficient way he can. Yes I have time to practice but I also have a family to look after so I need it to be time efficient also and give me the scope for the quickest improvement on the course.

So let’s sit in our ivory towers and say “Yeah you need to practice regularly and for extended periods of time, you need to go to the best golf coaches and golf schools, get playing lessons and get clubfitting to improve at golf” but this is real life guys and I am sorry I am willing to bet the average guy does not have the time, resources or inclination for that type of commitment and discipline. I am motivated to help that type of golfer with an inexpensive, easy to follow, easy to implement system that allows them to improve their standard of golf and more importantly to find the fun and enjoyment in their improvements. That is my concept for “personal par”

Enough said, I will save the rest from now on for when I launch the concept.

Carry on with the ivory tower, the world is a perfect place discussion… But it is only a tiny percentage of the population it applies to!

Nice post to AB2, you are the type of bloke I am doing this for. Feck me anybody would think this is so complicated! It can be so simple and fun it is ridiculous!

FWIW I have never lived in an ivory tower.

I practiced a bit, not as much as I should have.

I am very average

I did make it to single figures, not that that matters.

I like belgian chocolate; levity so we don’t take things too seriously.

At my age (67) personal par doesn’t mean much. It is all about being pain free and being able to play all the shots. I have been fortunate to have been able to pursue my golf hobby the past 15 years without having to worry about working for a living. What I have discovered is – there is only so much golf one can play. Also to practice and play frequently to a certain standard, one has to spend an awesome amount of time conditioning the body. It is time comsuming but a fun journey once the golf swing and how to prepare your body is no longer a mystery.

I guess my personal par would be based on length – par for those holes I can reach in regulation on that particular day.

2putts:

To be honest I don’t really give a fat rat’s what anyone thinks. I know it works, the golfers I have introduced the concepts to thus far are improving their scoring abilities and have dropped their handicaps significantly.

I am confident in what I am developing and I know it will show many golfers that there is an easier, achievable way to improve their golf performance and golfing enjoyment.

I am passionate about what I do and what I am going to do, I make no apologies for it. I guess the thing that has dawned on me through all the BS that has occurred is that it is time to stop talking and get on with it. The proof will be in the end result.

Glad you like Belgium mate, I have just frozen a big steaming log to make that biscuit for you. (Not being serious either)

At my age (67) personal par doesn’t mean much. It is all about being pain free and being able to play all the shots. I have been fortunate to have been able to pursue my golf hobby the past 15 years without having to worry about working for a living. What I have discovered is – there is only so much golf one can play. Also to practice and play frequently to a certain standard, one has to spend an awesome amount of time conditioning the body. It is time comsuming but a fun journey once the golf swing and how to prepare your body is no longer a mystery.

I guess my personal par would be based on length – par for those holes I can reach in regulation on that particular day.

The man who hits at the ball rather than through it has no sense of rhythm.
Secrets of the Master – The Best of Bobby Jones

Once again the concept has been missed. It would actually be right up your alley Razaar but I am done trying to convince anyone. The results will speak for themselves.

2putts:

To be honest I don’t really give a fat rat’s what anyone thinks. I know it works, the golfers I have introduced the concepts to thus far are improving their scoring abilities and have dropped their handicaps significantly.

I am confident in what I am developing and I know it will show many golfers that there is an easier, achievable way to improve their golf performance and golfing enjoyment.

I am passionate about what I do and what I am going to do, I make no apologies for it. I guess the thing that has dawned on me through all the BS that has occurred is that it is time to stop talking and get on with it. The proof will be in the end result.

Glad you like Belgium mate, I have just frozen a big steaming log to make that biscuit for you. (Not being serious either)

It is quite possible that your sole purpose in life is simply to serve as a warning to others.

God forgives people, that’s not my job….

It’s OK AB I don’t really care either : )

When Weetbix asked his question I did not know that this was your pet project. I knew you were interested in it but I didn’t know you viewed it as your own.

Even so, if you are going to go off whenever someone writes something you don’t like, well bugger me I don’t see how that is helpful.

Anyway yeah good idea to get on with it. I’m sure plenty of people will get on board and will love it.

Ok I understand now, personal par is course management for people who don’t know what course management is plain and simple…And it’s for people who don’t have the time to Practise and get better, gotcha.. So it’s for the weekend golfer.. If it was me I would be trying to smash everything if I played once a week, shit that one shot out of 100 that I pull off from 220 over water and knock it on the green!! I will be talking about that all week! The thrill will be there for a long time.. Bring me back next time..But that’s just me..

That’s true RTL might as well not get a handicap or play in club level comps either. Probably shouldn’t keep score either eh?

I should jump into this debate because I have played a number of games with AB and enjoy talking and learning and listen from him every time we play.

I use personal par concept all time, and when I get to a difficult long par 4 rated 3, this is a par 5 for me regardless of length.
.
I sometimes rate these types of holes a par 41/2 holes.
if make 4 you have done better than others, if make 5 thats OK.

sometimes this personal par approach does get frustrating because will take a 5 on a handicap hole an then mess up an easy hole where dont get a shot.

Another part of this approach is as described by GPJ and that is having a plan for hole or course you are playing.
If I am playing a different course this week when hitting at range I will play holes in my mind, I e hit driver, then lay up 6 iron then a pitch.

i find when I play bad is if I dont stick to my game plan and try to hit a different shot than intended.
I might have planned to hit a 3w off tee, but get there and play a driver and hit into rough, or worse if if I planned to lay up but then decide to go for it, often hit a bad shot .

On personal par I have also resorted to not just looking at hole index of my home course but making my own index.

some holes which the card says are easy, I find difficult, whereas some of the difficult holes my scoring average is better on them and I make a lot of 3 pointers.
so I have developed my own hole strategy. Off 9 I only need to par 9 of them, and it doesnt matter which ones.
somedays because of wind conditions the holes where dont get a shot are difficult and wont always score well.

I got to a low handicap as a kid and then went through a period of trying to hit it further and play attacking agressive golf all time feelling like I needed to par every hole. my game suffered.

I know with this using this approach from AB and some lessons from my coach on ball control shots and thinking better about club selection on holes on course I have become a very consistant ball striker and a solid player once again.
so thank you AB.

Nicepost cb80.

I understand what you are saying ab and it is correct and not saying its not one little bit.. But your making at out that you develop a method of playing when really it’s just course management 101… You explain correctly not saying you don’t..
All I was doing was giving my opinion and you get all defensive.. If its not your way it’s wrong.. Cool I got it now..

Pass me some popcorn stinks…...

RTL of course it is course management 101 but it is A methodology that handicap golfers can follow based on their level of play currently. it’s fine to say “its just course management” but who actually shows guys what course management is? People are just expected to know it.

I have not explained half of what it is about. I have explained it to a few guys i am close with and they are enjoying their golf, have learnt something and are improving. Sorry for thinking i had developed something that might be a worthwhile program to develop and attempt to introduce it to the wider golfing public. I guess you have to be a household name or a professional coach to do it.

No i am not right and no its not the only way. i am just pissed off having people piss on my idea when they have no clue what it even is about. Of course i am going to defend it and get edgy over it. Yeah i have probably crossed the line too and for that i apologise.

This is not a one time thread where it has been criticised.

Whatever at the end of the day it doesn’t matter.