The Federal Labor Party seems to be on a course of self-destruction.

Did Mark Latham run a good campaign recently ?

Does Latham deserve time to settle in ?

Who else in the Labor Party is capable of leading ?

Can Labor win an election by the year 2010 ?

Is Kim Beazley the unluckiest Labor Party leader of recent decades ?

Latham certainly has a fairly strong handshake !

dgstones,
I'm one of those who was saved from conscription for the Vietnam war and provided with a free University education by the Whitlam government. I'm also one of those who turned my back on Labor during Keating's reign.

The Federal Labor Party seems to be on a course of self-destruction.
Just turmoil that marks the bottom of their political cycle.
Until they stand for something other than getting elected
they will remain where they are.

Did Mark Latham run a good campaign recently ?
Yes and no. Things were going in the right direction until
the ridiculous "free health cover for seniors" thing.

Does Latham deserve time to settle in ?
No. He's like Bracks in Vic. Made the right noises
at the right time, but is otherwise a waste of space.

Who else in the Labor Party is capable of leading ?
Nobody. They all have the antiwhaterveritis mentality.

Can Labor win an election by the year 2010 ?
No, but they can start heading in the right direction.

Is Kim Beazley the unluckiest Labor Party leader of recent decades ?
No. Ditherers never lead and leaders never dither.
He is too easily paralysed by questions with no
right or wrong answer. The media play him a treat.

Latham certainly has a fairly strong handshake !
He's the proverbial bull at a gate.

The only way that Labour got close was that the media
wanted a story to run. In the end even the media gave
up on them. Thankfully Labour got hammered.
They are not fit to govern.

Apart from having the machinery running, the Liberals
aren't fit to govern either. What a disgrace their
"and wait there's more" campaign was.

2 things not to discuss at a dinner party - religeon and politics.

Having said that, after yet another Liberal defeat when Labor ran the country, everyone said the same thing. The Labor party isn't going away, Latham or not.

What should be interesting is how the Liberals are shafting the National's in this 'Coalition'. Liberal's are playing tricks in some rural areas, and in Queensland there's been a big loss of confidence by the National's to support Liberal.

It's a political fact that once a National seat becomes Liberal, they will never get it back.

I think Labour are right in saying they need to reinvent themselves, but saying it and doing it are poles apart in difficulty. And they will see it as a major risk to cut the umbillical cord of the unions, for where will they get their funding going forward?

I think the country needs two strong parties, and not necessarily on the traditional early 20th century "labour vs capital" dichotomy - we've moved on in some respects from that already, but the unions can't let it go.

The hard part for Labour is that it is they who need to decide how they differ from the Liberals. The easy part is that governments get tired and lack ideas because they don't turn over their senior people enough to keep themselves fresh, so unless Howard goes and half the cabinet retired in the next term, I think there will be plenty of opportunity for Labour to gain ground before the next election. If they can find some talent and present a united front...

Coming from a very left-ist background...strange in a public servant ACT family...BUT we have re-elected another Labor government to our idealistic ACT self government's Legislative Assembly...that said...I would NEVER vote a fascist Liberal into power...and don't even start me there..

I LOVED Paul Keating. The man had balls and charisma. Little Johnny has as much charisma as a dead fly.

I will support the Labor party. They have the right idea...they just need to get some guys/chicks with some balls! That said...I like Mark Latham's 'rawness'.

Latham has "RAWNESS & BALLS"

Well one ball anyway.

If his colleagues settle down and give him a go he may, just may, be able to turn things around for Labor.

Latham has not had it easy to date in his life, but to his credit he has guts to tell Little Johnny exactly what he is - A posterior licker.

Latham is a psychopath and there is little chance he'll be leading them to the next election. And how much of a chance does mogadon Mark need? He had a massive honeymoon following his appointment as leader from the media and still blew it. He was worth a punt, as they had no hope with Crean, but the experiment failed.

I doubt they'll be logging on here to seek our views though. Of the massive amount of Victorian Govt MPs, only two play golf. I'm not sure it is much better amongst their federal counterparts.

Oh Jim...he is not a psychopath...

I am fairly sure he has not killed anyone...
if he killed little Johnny I would call him HERO

In all honesty, there is no way I would want Latham running this country. He is only one step above the weasel in platform shoes curently in the job.
Politically this country is in a serious lull. There is no one around even worthy of greatness. Howard is the biggest joke I've ever met. He has no personality, no class and nothing to share with the people he governs over. Latham is really not any better. Crean was an idiot and beasley, who is the only one who seems to have any dignity, doesnt have the mongrel in him required to get there.

Costello and Abbot are supposedly next in line. God help us!

It is interesting reading this thread. A couple of observations:

1. the thread started by asking some genuine questions about the direction of Labour and its leadership
2. most of the posters on the thread are clearly labour supporters
3. most of the threads posted having comprised substantially of attacks on "little johnny" -labours derogatory put down of the PM

I hereby declare I am a liberal supporter (just getting that out of the way).

What amazes me about the Labor side of politics is summarised beatifully in this thread. The party has been decimated -the Libs hold 50% more seats than Labour. Utterly destroyed!! And what are the Labour supporters focused on ... derogatory comments about the leadership of the Libs.

You simply don't get it do you. The country destroyed labour because Labour does not present a genuine alternative -and yet all the Labour party and its supporters can do is attack the personalities in the Liberal party. If the time you guys spent on the personal attacks was devoted to developing a genuine alternative government you might just have a chance by 2010.

Oh and finally, Johnny might just be little with no personality and no class BUT he has presided over an economy which employs more Austrlians than ever before and has made Australia more prosperous than ever before. These are things the Labour party simply cannot compete with -you had better hope for a global economic meltdown otherwise 2015 might be your next chance.

I'm not technically a labour supporter. My allegiance lies with none of the parties in this country. Both major parties are so mundane our political system is virtually a waste of time.

Neither of them stand for any real difference. The only thing is for sure is that I will always find something wrong with whoever is in government.

We are now part of a global economy now, and the Labour party's ideals really do not fit that well within it, and they are in serious trouble. Our whole system needs a major overhaul. Why do you think 'Little Johnny' screwed up that referendum on the republic? He knows it spells doom for his party.

You may think the liberal party is doing a great job, but they are still doing the same thing. Which is nothing. The liberal government is very conservative, and does bugger all, except look after those that pay for their campaign.

The reason we are sitting okay at this point is because the bigger economies in the world have been forced to slow down and this just fits perfectly with the liberal parties conservative ways.

Miro67,

I'm not a supporter of EITHER party but I know a LIAR when I hear one.

Little Johnny said, "WE WILL NEVER HAVE A G.S.T" Guess what we have a G.S.T.

Hang on - I thought being able to lie was a pre-requisite of being a politician (along with having selective memory lapses)

Amanda Wong - I cannot argue with you on that point!

A politician that does not lie is Not a politician

QUOTE: VJ Stinks @ Dec 14 2004, 11:28 AM

I'm not technically a labour supporter. My allegiance lies with none of the parties in this country. Both major parties are so mundane our political system is virtually a waste of time.

Neither of them stand for any real difference. The only thing is for sure is that I will always find something wrong with whoever is in government.

We are now part of a global economy now, and the Labour party's ideals really do not fit that well within it, and they are in serious trouble. Our whole system needs a major overhaul. Why do you think 'Little Johnny' screwed up that referendum on the republic? He knows it spells doom for his party.

You may think the liberal party is doing a great job, but they are still doing the same thing. Which is nothing. The liberal government is very conservative, and does bugger all, except look after those that pay for their campaign.

The reason we are sitting okay at this point is because the bigger economies in the world have been forced to slow down and this just fits perfectly with the liberal parties conservative ways.

VJ, that analysis is hogwash. Economics is not quite so easy to pin down as that.

The Aussie economy is highly integrated internationally, yes, but its buoyancy owes as much to inflated domestic demand as it does to international factors.

The property industry has conned us all into believing we should spend higher percentages of our income on property, meaning we borrow more.

The banks have also said that, because you're house is worth more given recent price rises in houses caused by the demand for housing, you can borrow more money from us against your equity in your home. So we all spend more to use that money the bank said we could have, which means more money for companies who sell things to us. This in turn leads to more jobs for people to be employed in those industries, and this means more money being spent the economy, house prices going up, etc. Great huh?

Well yes and no. Let me talk about the international economy.

On the international front, our dollar's recent appreciation means the money we've borrowed (most of the money we've borrowed have been sourced by our banks from o/s) has not been a major issue for overseas lenders because we're able to pay it back, overseas interest rates are lower than Australian interest rates so overseas lenders are happy to invest in Australia because they earn higher returns than they do investing in their own countries. Because commodity prices have been strong in recent times, Australia's been earning good forex to finance our external debt and ratings agencies reckon we're a good risk.

But!

Our borrowings are increasing our exposure to a credit crisis. If commodity prices deteriorate, then ratings agencies will reduce our credit rating and that means interest rates we pay foreign lenders go up. And that means our banks have to remit more per month overseas, which lowers the value of our dollar, which in turn increases the A$ value of our foreign debt. And the spiral goes on to the point that the banks can't finance any more borrowings. In the meantime, companies can't expand so employment growth slows, spending slows, house prices drop, people owe more on their mortgage than they can sell the house for... and... well this is where the government shows its mettle...

The free trade agreements we've signed with the US, Thailand and Singapore, and those we want to sign with a dozen other Asian nations, are hoped to lead to improved export flows (yes it will mean we'll face cheap imports that threaten some of our industries, but consumers don't always make that change so easily thanks to Dick Smith and the like). Improved export flows means we are better able to ride the ebb and flow of the international economy. Further, the international economy is changing because the US' importance is gradually reducing, replaced by China, India and a variety of other emerging nations. The US is still the most important, but Australia will benefit from greater trade interaction with many other countries - it reduces the risk of our plunging into the credit/debt crises mentioned above.

Internally, the management of the economic fundamentals has been very sound. Fiscal discipline and a stable monetary policy has enabled the economy to function well. Australia has some significant structural issues - health, the environment and education all need attention, but there's hardly a model anywhere in the world that would work well in Australia, so we await some good long-term solutions to those issues.

Ok now everyone, you can wake up, I've finished!

QUOTE: peanuts @ Dec 14 2004, 03:14 PM

VJ, that analysis is hogwash. Economics is not quite so easy to pin down as that.

Half of what I say may be hogwash, but peanuts do you have a point at all?
Have another read of the topic sunshine.

QUOTE: VJ Stinks @ Dec 14 2004, 01:25 PM

Half of what I say may be hogwash, but peanuts do you have a point at all?
Have another read of the topic sunshine.

It was a rebuttal of your point that the government has done nothing and that it characterises a conservative economic policy. It is nothing of the sort. I just took 1300 words to get that out

You must be having a slow day.
You also failed to mention the government once in there. Prove to me where they actually do anything. Free trade agreements are the only thing you have mentioned and so far they have not even come into effect yet.

QUOTE: VJ Stinks @ Dec 14 2004, 01:51 PM

You must be having a slow day.
You also failed to mention the government once in there. Prove to me where they actually do anything. Free trade agreements are the only thing you  have mentioned and so far they have not even come into effect yet.

Sorry VJ, if I'm talking about fiscal discipline and stable monetary policy that's an economist's code for talking about the government actions on budgetary issues and setting/influencing interest rates.

I would like to know if Kim Beazley deserved a go as OZ P.M.

Does anybody think his size was a factor ?

Mind you, I carry a bit of a gut.

Labour has always played the man instead of the ball. In times of great economic uncertainy its works, however people see straight through it when the country is going well.

Latham is a lightweight who has no appeal to women voters, or the middle classes, which is why he lost, badly. He campaigned poorly, without a solid policy platform, and without much support behind him. He wont survive much longer, and reminds me a lot of Alexander Downer when he was Opposition leader.

Simply not the right bloke for the job.

I definately think beazleys gut cost him an election, that and his inability to stand up for himself and what he believes in. The only time he ever really struck a chord with me was in his leadership resignation speech.

Peanuts, i dont think the current government has done a bad job. I think they are doing okay. My view is that the present government has had bugger all to do with interest rates for the last 5 years. The worlds economy has been mostly responsible.

QUOTE: VJ Stinks @ Dec 14 2004, 03:01 PM

Peanuts, i dont think the current government has done a bad job. I think they are doing okay. My view is that the present government has had bugger all to do with interest rates for the last 5 years. The worlds economy has been mostly responsible.

VJ, interest rates in Australia are set by the Reserve Bank Board, which takes into account a range of macroeconomic factors, and have at the centre of their platform an aim to keep inflation at or below 3.5%. I won't go into any further boring detail here, but suffice to say the government's range of economic policies have enabled the inflation target to remain in check, and keeping economic growth in a healthy range (3-4%). If the economy grows more than that, the Reserve Bank Board is likely to increase interest rates. External factors impact, yes, but less than you think. Part of the reason the Aussie dollar has appreciated in the last two years is because Australia has almost the highest interest rates in the developed world (so investors pour their money here to get higher returns). But they are still low enough to allow for economic growth to be amongst the highest in the developed world.

External factors responsible? Partly. Good economic management? Partly. Sustainable? Not if we continue to borrow lots of money...

I think for the first time ever i actually agree with you Peanuts.
But come football season that'll change.

Being the highly unintellectual (did I spell that correctly? LMAO) individual that I am...I have to say that PL should become PM... so then I could call him PMPL...

Hmm, at any rate...I can sit there and bag Little Johnny and his pack of cronies and justify that.

Any government that tells porkies like the "children overboard" case... their treatment of refugees...and role in the "War against terrorism" (eg sucky sucky bum lick to George Dubbleyah... the scariest man in the universe) have a lot to answer for.