A young woman was about to finish her first year at university. Like so many others her age, she considered herself to be a Labour supporter and very liberal. Among her other liberal ideals, she was very much in favor of higher taxes to support more government programs, in other words redistribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed of her father who was a staunch Nationalite, a feeling she openly expressed.

Based on the lectures that she had participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor (who sported a full beard), she felt that her father had for years, harboured an evil selfish desire to keep what he thought, should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes for the rich and the need for more government programs. The self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the truth and she indicated so to her father. He responded by asking how she was doing at university.

Taken aback, she answered rather haughtily that she had passes in 4 subjects, and let him know that it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out and party like other people she knew. She didn’t even have time for a boyfriend, and didn’t really have many varsity friends because she spent all her time studying.

Her father listened and then asked, ‘How is your friend Clarrisa doing?’

She replied, ‘Clarrisa is barely getting by. All she takes are easy classes, she never studies, and she has only 2 passes. But she is ever so popular on campus; varsity for her is a blast. She’s always invited to all the parties and lots of times she doesn’t even show up for classes because she’s too hung over.’

Her wise father asked his daughter, ‘Why don’t you go to the Chancellor’s office and ask him to deduct 1 pass off you and give it to your friend who only has 2 passes. That way you will both have 3 passes and certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of passes’.

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father’s suggestion, angrily fired back, ‘That’s a crazy idea, and how would that be fair! I’ve worked really hard for my grades! I’ve invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Clarrisa has done next to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!’

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, ‘Welcome to the National party.’

If anyone has a better explanation of the difference between National and Labour then I’m all ears.

never heard so much rubbish in my whole life…

good one

never heard so much rubbish in my whole life…

Cliff Manley

3 bad shots and 1 good shot is still a 4….
Golf is played in a very small area, the 6 inches between your ears…

One swing to hit the ball,
one swing to find a score,
One swing you bring to all,
And on the fairway find them.

How so? Higher taxes on the rich is just that, a redistribution of wealth. If you start taxing the wealth too much, they’ll take their golf clubs and go play elsewhere, per say. You lower taxes on the rich, they have more money to spend, and most of them do so.

Ask anyone from the national party if the govt should provide mega handouts and bullsh1t low interest loans for the building/construction industries when times are tough, the same way they do for farmers. that’ll show you the difference

never heard so much rubbish in my whole life…

Cliff Manley

3 bad shots and 1 good shot is still a 4….
Golf is played in a very small area, the 6 inches between your ears…

One swing to hit the ball,
one swing to find a score,
One swing you bring to all,
And on the fairway find them.

How so? Higher taxes on the rich is just that, a redistribution of wealth. If you start taxing the wealth too much, they’ll take their golf clubs and go play elsewhere, per say. You lower taxes on the rich, they have more money to spend, and most of them do so.

“A star that shines twice as bright burns twice as fast.” – In memory of Greg Moore

Racinfarmer will be signing autographs at the mall from 3 to 5.

You mean like Alan Bond? Yeah, he spent all his money in jail… of course he’s back ripping people off again…..

Come talk to me in twenty or thirty years after you’ve lived through it… the highs and the lows, the ripoff merchants and government after government, people with the arrogance to believe things like global warming taxes are nothing more than a way to rip more money out of the system… I could go on but there really is no point… and please don’t take this personally, I lived in Canberra for 33 years, I’ve seen it all, and left in disgust.

Me, I think Star Trek have the right system….

never heard so much rubbish in my whole life…

Cliff Manley

3 bad shots and 1 good shot is still a 4….
Golf is played in a very small area, the 6 inches between your ears…

One swing to hit the ball,
one swing to find a score,
One swing you bring to all,
And on the fairway find them.

How so? Higher taxes on the rich is just that, a redistribution of wealth. If you start taxing the wealth too much, they’ll take their golf clubs and go play elsewhere, per say. You lower taxes on the rich, they have more money to spend, and most of them do so.

“A star that shines twice as bright burns twice as fast.” – In memory of Greg Moore

Racinfarmer will be signing autographs at the mall from 3 to 5.

You mean like Alan Bond? Yeah, he spent all his money in jail… of course he’s back ripping people off again…..

Come talk to me in twenty or thirty years after you’ve lived through it… the highs and the lows, the ripoff merchants and government after government, people with the arrogance to believe things like global warming taxes are nothing more than a way to rip more money out of the system… I could go on but there really is no point… and please don’t take this personally, I lived in Canberra for 33 years, I’ve seen it all, and left in disgust.

Me, I think Star Trek have the right system….

Cliff Manley

3 bad shots and 1 good shot is still a 4….
Golf is played in a very small area, the 6 inches between your ears…

One swing to hit the ball,
one swing to find a score,
One swing you bring to all,
And on the fairway find them.

Ah, I think you and I agree with each other, not disagree. “Global Warming Tax” and all the other bullcrap taxes are just that, a load of crap. You start taxing people too much (especially the wealthy), they’ll go elsewhere. Have you ever wondered why Dubai has become so popular? Or Monaco? Or Luxemborg? It is because they are tax havens, and not just for the super rich either. They are usually rich for a reason, and they aren’t stupid about it.

What is really sad about the America I live in is the country was formed because people didn’t like the high taxes and opression put on them by European monarchs. Today, I am taxed more then I would have been in 15th-17th century Europe, and I loose my freedoms by the day.

Yep, I think in the end people are people, and number 1 comes first, then the kids, then your partner etc and there are always people that will follow a Party, or a Trade Union, or a Gang, because they see something in it for themselves.

The fact is Gov’t is way to big, especially in Australia, it is self interested and only about staying in power.

There are plenty of rich people that will do good work, and ultimatly that’s their way of redistributing the wealth. Then you get the assholes that redistribute that wealth through Casinos or horse racing, or alcohol… in the end there are plenty of hard working, law abiding nice people who never get more than a kick in the arse…. society is a complicated and living organism that is more than any one person will ever understand….

in the 50s 1 income could support a family
in the 80s 2 incomes required
now the kids have to work and cannot afford to move out
most people are slaves to their credit card and mortgage is there really any good choices in our way of life other than to go play a round of golf?

Do any of you know a golf forum that isn’t full of wannabe fascists?

Look at it this way. In the sixties families had 1 income 1car 1tv & in most cases a 3 bedroom house. Now we want a 4 bedroom house with a study, 2 or 3 tvs, a computer or 2, 2 cars, the internet & pay tv not counting all the additional furniture that is available now.Many people are struggling with thier mortgage because they are overextended on thier credit card.Today,s society seems to live on credit rather than wait & save before buying & the market reflects that mindset.Lets remember back when interest rates were 17% & more.Both my parents worked to be able to build & own thier own house. they did without theluxuries fort years untilk they could afford to buy them. Unfortunately this thinking does not seem tyo be very popular anymore.These are not the only reasons for how things are today but they are a large part them.

Do any of you know a golf forum that isn’t full of wannabe fascists?

There are 9 other sub-forums on this website dedicated to golf, try looking there if you don’t like what you read here.

And James, being conservative with political views is far from being a fascist.

Pom, couldn’t agree more

Pom, I understand and agree with you. Even when interest rates were 17.5% in real terms housing was more affordable than 2 years ago at 6% when looking at median prices etc. But, back then your “first home” was very very modest, and frequently not 3 but 2 bedrooms, 1 bathroom etc. First home buyers now want 3-4 bedrooms, landscape gardens, luxury whitegoods, a 1 series BMW etc etc.

And irresponsible lending by banks and 2nd and 3rd tier lenders has provided a big help in causing problems. there are so many people in the housing market now who really can’t afford it. I shudder to think how a lot of people who a treading water are going to be effected when the 6% fixed rate they’re on goes up to 9.5 variable.

A little off topic, but i just had my dad visit this wknd from the T’ville, he was saying the market has really slowed up there?

The obvious thing “conservatives” dont take into account is if you dont fund public programs for health, education etc. then the lower classes will become a greater and greater burden on the wealthy as the general health and productivity falls

This is what happens in a lot of developing 3rd and 2nd world countries where there is a huge gap in wealth

Essentially by choosing to not fund preventative measure such as providing eductation to those who cant afford it, you doom yourself and your kids to paying more later down the track when the 80% of people worse off than you decide life has become unlive-able, and actually get off their butts to vote

Zimbabwe/South Africa anyone?

Your dad is 100% correct Gribbles . I am in the building trades & that sector has also slowed appreciably. Mind you I believe the market was mainly being driven by property investors & maybe they are pulling back a little with the global economy as it is at present.

The obvious thing “conservatives” dont take into account is if you dont fund public programs for health, education etc. then the lower classes will become a greater and greater burden on the wealthy as the general health and productivity falls

This is what happens in a lot of developing 3rd and 2nd world countries where there is a huge gap in wealth

Essentially by choosing to not fund preventative measure such as providing eductation to those who cant afford it, you doom yourself and your kids to paying more later down the track when the 80% of people worse off than you decide life has become unlive-able, and actually get off their butts to vote

Zimbabwe/South Africa anyone?

How so?

I’ll start with the lower class. Why should we fund them to be lazy all their life? I have no problem with them taking unemployment for a month, two, or three, between jobs, but when they do it their entire life, then I do have a problem with it. If we continue to fund them for years on end, they have no need or want to contribute to society. They need a kick in their ass to get off their ass and get a job.

Onto public health. Again, I have no problem with helping others for a while (children, eldery, etc.), and some for their entire life (mentally handicapped, war veterens, etc.), but again, you need to get people off their asses and make them productive, not leach off the system their entire life. Don’t you dare say it doesn’t happen, my wife sees it happen every day at work. Some say health insurance is too expensive. And? You don’t need the top of the line plan or stuff that covers everything and anything. Pick and choose wisely.

Forward we charge to public education. I’m not sure what the public education system is like in Aus, but here in the States, it is a joke (I won’t even get into all of it, yet). Private eduction is the answer IMO. How to do it you ask? Give each child a credit. If you wish to send your kid to the public school, do it. If you want to send them to a private school, that is where the credit goes. As for college, I think it should hard to get into and expensive. Why? You are investing in yourself. If you need to take out loans to do it, so be it. If you open it up to anyone and everyone, then you are really screwed. I’ve been in college for three years, and have a year left. I can go through an entire lecture hall and pick out the students who are paying for their own college and those who are not.

Anyways, to clear all the incoherient ranting up – you need to make the poor/lower class uncomfortable with their current situation, or else they will just leach off the system.

Interesting story.

But face it, both sets of government are as bad as each other and unfair on one side of the community in favour of the other.

Man has dominated man to his injury for centuries, it isn’t going to stop any time soon as long as humans govern each other.

Wow racinfarmer,

I didnt really understand pretty much anything you were saying until “here in the united states”

pretty much says it all

worse health care indicators than parts of the third world, many states refuse to teach evolution in schools, and what percentage of the population in jail? 3%?

i think at some point you have to look to other countries and say, what are we doing wrong? The fact is any country which spends more on supporting the lower class has lower rates of crime, less permanent joblessness, better health

america is the prime example of what i am saying. you ignore the lower groups by not educating them or protecting their ability to work with free health care, and you pay for it

yes, there are a core of people who through ubringing or injury or social problems will never work and will drain the system. In australia it is a small group, and the more you support that group as children (it is too late as adults) the less problematic they will be

meh, i think i started well and got rambly. take from that what you will

Wow racinfarmer,

I didnt really understand pretty much anything you were saying until “here in the united states”

pretty much says it all

worse health care indicators than parts of the third world, many states refuse to teach evolution in schools, and what percentage of the population in jail? 3%?

i think at some point you have to look to other countries and say, what are we doing wrong? The fact is any country which spends more on supporting the lower class has lower rates of crime, less permanent joblessness, better health

america is the prime example of what i am saying. you ignore the lower groups by not educating them or protecting their ability to work with free health care, and you pay for it

yes, there are a core of people who through ubringing or injury or social problems will never work and will drain the system. In australia it is a small group, and the more you support that group as children (it is too late as adults) the less problematic they will be

meh, i think i started well and got rambly. take from that what you will

Uggg, lets start back at the beginning.

Health care – if it is so bad, why do we have people from all over the world coming to the US for it? Even people who have socialized healthcare (Canada & European countries) come here for what we consider basic care, such as child birth or an MRI. You show me were we have worse healthcare then a 3rd world country.

PS, I’ll let you in on our dirty little secret – we already do have socialized healthcare. If you show up to a public hospital, they HAVE to treat you, whether you can pay for it or not. If you don’t, the hospital just absorbes the cost and passes it on to paying consumers like me, and the taxpayer.

Schools not teaching evolution in schools? Strange, I learned about it in the 8th grade. I also learned about it a second time in public college.

3% jail rate? I’d question that rate, but we also jail people for a lot less then you do in Aus, I’m pretty sure of it. How long down a meth/coke/heroin dealer get in Aus? They get around 15 years here. Another thing that raises our jail rate is illegals. We have entire jails in southern states that are filled with lawbreaking illegals waiting deportation or are there for other offences such as drugs, robbery, rape, etc.

You say we are a prime problem of what happens if we don’t support them? I disagree. You can live your entire adult life on welfare and keep popping out kids left and right, and not pay a dime in taxes or work a day of your adult life in the US. Pretty sweet eh? I say look at European countries to see what happens when you make the lower class and poor comfortable. Unemployment near or over 10% (ours is about 5.7%), higher taxes on everyone (to pay for them), and higher rates of drug use (ever seen someone shoot up cocaine at an international airport? I have!).

You make the lower class comfortable with where they are, why should they go and be productive members of society?

People come to your hospitals, or go to a few other countries, because if you have money you can get whatever you want. There is no gatekeeper. If you want an MRI you can get it

This is the key problem with the system, and why health care is unaffordable in the USA

http://www.nationmaster.com...

USA stats are not published but apparently sit at 6.4, making them 27th, and at the same level as Cuba

http://www.nationmaster.com...
(obesity is combated by good education and health prevention)

YET
http://www.nationmaster.com...

they see the doctor more often. how does that make sense? wasted health money because there is no regulation. USA seem to have lack of regulation problems all over the place hey?

unfortunately the “they get treated in ED” is the problem. your EDs cannot cope as the poor people have no-where else to go, and then when further treatment is required, even middle class people go bankrupt

heres another
http://www.nationmaster.com...

so the problem is much bigger (3% more) for USA than Australia. Wonder why?

Could it be …

education?

http://www.nationmaster.com...
http://www.nationmaster.com...
http://www.nationmaster.com...

yet you spend MORE of your GDP on education than most developed countries! again, this doesnt make sense, or perhaps you spend it in the wrong places

crime:
http://www.nationmaster.com...
0.7% of the ENTIRE POPULATION
australia is 7 times less. Maybe we are just genetically lawful people? oh, wait, we were settled almost entirely by convicts. it must be because there are so many left wing commies!

or

http://www.infoplease.com/i...

try that on for size. over 10% of black male americans aged 25-29 in prison? that is madness. someone isnt being looked after

Man, Im all out of interest in this. If there is something I didnt address, let me know. Shit country

This is madness?
This is Sparta!

People come to your hospitals, or go to a few other countries, because if you have money you can get whatever you want. There is no gatekeeper. If you want an MRI you can get it

This is the key problem with the system, and why health care is unaffordable in the USA

http://www.nationmaster.com…

USA stats are not published but apparently sit at 6.4, making them 27th, and at the same level as Cuba

http://www.nationmaster.com…
(obesity is combated by good education and health prevention)

YET
http://www.nationmaster.com…

they see the doctor more often. how does that make sense? wasted health money because there is no regulation. USA seem to have lack of regulation problems all over the place hey?

unfortunately the “they get treated in ED” is the problem. your EDs cannot cope as the poor people have no-where else to go, and then when further treatment is required, even middle class people go bankrupt

heres another
http://www.nationmaster.com…

so the problem is much bigger (3% more) for USA than Australia. Wonder why?

Could it be …

education?

http://www.nationmaster.com…
http://www.nationmaster.com…
http://www.nationmaster.com…

yet you spend MORE of your GDP on education than most developed countries! again, this doesnt make sense, or perhaps you spend it in the wrong places

crime:
http://www.nationmaster.com…
0.7% of the ENTIRE POPULATION
australia is 7 times less. Maybe we are just genetically lawful people? oh, wait, we were settled almost entirely by convicts. it must be because there are so many left wing commies!

or

http://www.infoplease.com/i…

try that on for size. over 10% of black male americans aged 25-29 in prison? that is madness. someone isnt being looked after

Man, Im all out of interest in this. If there is something I didnt address, let me know. Shit country

Ahhhhh!!!! Uninformed idiot from another country who is telling me I know less about my own country then I do! WTF??????!

Do I need to repeat myself? Healthcare is NOT unafforable in my country! High levels of health insurance are. If you go to a public hospital, THEY CANNOT REFUSE YOU CARE AND MEDICATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If our healthcare is so bad (on the same level’s as Cuba as you seem to believe), why do we have people from all over the world coming to get treated here, in my country, the USA????? Many of these people come from countries with socialized healthcare, which in case you don’t know, means everyone in the country has their healthcare paid for by taxes, and everyone is insured. Why would people pay for healthcare in their own country, and also pay to come to the USA for treatment? Why? It must be our bad healthcare, that is the same as Cuba’s.

Lack of regulation problems? If I wanted more regulation, I’d move to a communist country (or Switzerland).

I already addressed the education problem. Go ready it again.

Maybe your imprisonment rate is so low because instead of sending drug addicts, sex offenders, and the like to jail, you send them to rehab. Easy ways to work around the numbers.

10% of black males are in prisons in my country? Maybe it is because they are the ones causing most of the crimes? Gee, did that ever occur to you? Ever been to a predominatly black neighborhood? I bet you haven’t. I myself feel very uncomfortable in them.

I’m all out of interest trying to debate you about something you only read about and I experence first hand. Shit brains you done got their Cletus.

never heard so much rubbish in my whole life…

Cliff Manley

3 bad shots and 1 good shot is still a 4….
Golf is played in a very small area, the 6 inches between your ears…

One swing to hit the ball,
one swing to find a score,
One swing you bring to all,
And on the fairway find them.

How so? Higher taxes on the rich is just that, a redistribution of wealth. If you start taxing the wealth too much, they’ll take their golf clubs and go play elsewhere, per say. You lower taxes on the rich, they have more money to spend, and most of them do so.

“A star that shines twice as bright burns twice as fast.” – In memory of Greg Moore

Racinfarmer will be signing autographs at the mall from 3 to 5.

You mean like Alan Bond? Yeah, he spent all his money in jail… of course he’s back ripping people off again…..

Come talk to me in twenty or thirty years after you’ve lived through it… the highs and the lows, the ripoff merchants and government after government, people with the arrogance to believe things like global warming taxes are nothing more than a way to rip more money out of the system… I could go on but there really is no point… and please don’t take this personally, I lived in Canberra for 33 years, I’ve seen it all, and left in disgust.

Me, I think Star Trek have the right system….

Cliff Manley

3 bad shots and 1 good shot is still a 4….
Golf is played in a very small area, the 6 inches between your ears…

One swing to hit the ball,
one swing to find a score,
One swing you bring to all,
And on the fairway find them.

Ah, I think you and I agree with each other, not disagree. “Global Warming Tax” and all the other bullcrap taxes are just that, a load of crap. You start taxing people too much (especially the wealthy), they’ll go elsewhere. Have you ever wondered why Dubai has become so popular? Or Monaco? Or Luxemborg? It is because they are tax havens, and not just for the super rich either. They are usually rich for a reason, and they aren’t stupid about it.

What is really sad about the America I live in is the country was formed because people didn’t like the high taxes and opression put on them by European monarchs. Today, I am taxed more then I would have been in 15th-17th century Europe, and I loose my freedoms by the day.

“A star that shines twice as bright burns twice as fast.” – In memory of Greg Moore

Racinfarmer will be signing autographs at the mall from 3 to 5.

pehaps it’s time for you n erudite people like yourself to consider Dubai , Monaco Or Luxemburg home , how about that ?
then mayb you all have n i dont know !

that was hilarious racin

read anything i wrote, any of the links and you will find i comprehensively answered every ‘point’ you made there

if you need help

people go to your country for healthcare because if they can afford it they get the best care in the world. if they cant afford it (and 99% cant) they get shafted

hospital treatment ‘for free’ is the worst thing a country can do. IT IS TOO LATE when you get to hospital. your arteries will never be clog free, your brain will never not have damage, you bones will never be pristine and unbroken

there is no argument ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD that you dont waste money by not supplying PREVENTATIVE HEALTHCARE

and you addressed the education problem? you addressed the terrible literacy, numeracy and science ratings? you addressed the inequitous division of resources between poor schools and top of the line ivy league wank towns?

as for crime, my god. just pretend im speaking really slowly, so you can understand. MY POINT IS THE BLACK COMMUNITY, WHO IS POOR, COMMIT MORE CRIME. THE IS MY POINT. BECAUSE THEY ARE POOR

it is not a tough legal system. it is more crime

http://www.nationmaster.com...
http://www.nationmaster.com...

so more crime in a country with poor education, poor healthcare coverage, poor social services. and your point is what? that by not supporting the poor and being tough on them legally, you enjoy paying for them to stay in prison?

my country has heaps of problems, not the least of which for the last 10 years the government wanted it to be america. but i accept its problems. if you actually believe what you are saying, then you and everyone like you is the reason america is a laughing stock