You really do appear to be missing the point Dave. To curtail illegal activities it is necessary to have deterrents in place. Otherwise you may as well tell everyone that it’s OK to do whatever you want whenever you want to, nothing will happen to you anyway, go for it and rip people off, ruin them financially, break all the rules, pay off people to shut up and cover up lab test results etc etc. Whoever commits the biggest fraud wins.

Just to clarify some issues you have raised also:
Nobody has said lock him up and throw away the keys, that I’m aware of.

The Westminister system you referred to is in fact the system of govt, elections and parliamentary procedures, not the justice system of penalties. The courts are independent of govt, that’s why so many Magistrates and judges have been able to get away with slapping criminals with wet lettuce leaves instead of applying appropriate punishments.

The amount of daily imprisonment costs you quoted of $2,000 daily are quite incorrect….in fact it is closer to $325.00 daily per crim in WA at least. That may vary slightly from prison to prison but certainly not by much, and it covers all the costs required including staff wages etc.

Nobody expects that all the money will be recovered either, that is a given.

I find it ironic that you state the biggest problem is the justice system itself, when you yourself object to utilising it as the deterrent value and appear to let the offender virtually get away with his crimes.

It is with some sense of relief to me that you state you were involved with the justice system but are no longer…..relief that you are not in a position to make any decisions on such matters. This is tempered however with some concern in regard to your involvement with the drug and alcohol area…..given your apparent latitude for seemingly getting sucked in by softcock stories it would appear you may be in for some interesting times.Hopefully the general population will not have to suffer any consequences arising from that.

well clearly YOU have no idea on costs

why do you think so many people dont go to prison – its cost and nothing else

one prison guard makes 300 bucks a day..I play golf with many of them.

check your source mate

I agree some crims get away with soft penalties and others get pounded

the problem is we lock the wrong people up. Thankfully WA has just introduced a law that if you assault a police officer you will go to jail…I reckon you assault anyone you should go to jail!

lock uo violent people and rehab in the community ofr fraud and white collar crime has always been my view

money can be replaced borken bones take a lot longer to heal

lets agree to disagree on this one

YOU think Lance needs to go to prison, I reckon thats pointless

thats the crux of it..agree to disagree – I wont change my opinion on that one and I doubt you will either and dibs to you for that view.

A little maths for you, this is how you determine the cost per prisoner per day…..the subject is a regional prison in WA which has an annual budget of 19.6 million dollars and holds an average of 160 prisoners daily.
The budget covers all running costs including staff wages etc.

160 prisoners by $335daily by 365 days = $19.564m per annum. Simple hey? Obviously the bigger the prison, the more prisoners, the bigger the annual budget per prisoner.

Wages….$300daily by 365days = $109.5k per annum. There are no prisoner ofrs getting that as a base salary in WA…...don’t believe me? Phone recruitment at Dept Corrective Services head office Perth and ask….it’s a matter of public record because it’s a govt job. Phone the prison ofrs union WAPOU…..they will tell you the pay rates.

You say I should check my sources?.......check who you play golf with mate, I probably know some of them:) The biggest part of any prison budget is wages obviously, and the only way to cut back on that is to go to privatisation where private prisons don’t hire as many staff so they make money that way. Another reason why the prison ofrs union is fighting privatisation in this state…it’s happened on a grand scale in the Eastern states and has already started here.

And don’t waste your time telling me I have no idea of costs, just one of my jobs is to administer and monitor this budget. As for your statement “why do you think so many people don’t go to prison….it’s cost and nothing else”....that is yet another perfect example of the bullshit you get engaged in. The courts determine who and how many land in prison and neither Corrective Services nor the state govt have any say in the matter. That is why they are overflowing statewide with too many prisoners and not enough bedspaces, that is why the state govt is cutting back on so many things in the dept because they do not have the money, ask your golf mates about that also, their union is fighting for a pay rise right now due to the increased workloads due to excess prisoners. Still take people like Lance baby though, they don’t have any choice :)

Amazing who you meet on the internet isn’t it? You really need to bear that in mind in future when you relate some of your stories :) There endeth the lesson.

wow, thanks for all that ino Wolfe.

Dave_1_, you have just been royally bitchslapped….

Listen dave1, I work in a forensic psychiatric facility and this is way more heavily staffed with highly paid health professionals and at a higher ratio of staff to patient than prison. The most expensive unit to run is the women’s unit at a cost of $900/day. The cost of housing a prisoner would not get close.

By way of your argument, we wouldn’t need to lock up most murderers shouldn’t be improsoned. Why you ask? The majority of people who murder do it to a particular person, ie spouse, but would never harm the public. Maybe they should be able to give the school speech just after lance warns the kids not to use EPO :)

The question I would like answered is:

Was the drug culture in place before Lance, or did “he” instigate it?

If the culture is in place then names need to be named, and the root of the problem rooted out. The “he” is in quotes because I find hard to believe a cyclist singularly would have the knowledge and sources to instigate a culture of drug use.

I think Lance is innocent, I don’t care what he says.

The question I would like answered is:

Was the drug culture in place before Lance, or did “he” instigate it?

If the culture is in place then names need to be named, and the root of the problem rooted out. The “he” is in quotes because I find hard to believe a cyclist singularly would have the knowledge and sources to instigate a culture of drug use.

Initial Handicap (11/02/2012): 18.6
Current Handicap: 16.8 Goal Handicap (end of 2012): 15

http://www.golflink.com.au/…

It appears that drugs are now, and have been for quite some time, involved in most areas of professional sport. Good money to be made in the masking drugs that hide the detection of the main drug. Lance Armstrong is just one of the people who got caught up in it because with endorsements there is huge money involved…...he is probably no more responsible than hundreds of others, he just had a more “efficient” system working that’s all, his system got a bit big and loose lips brought it undone. The fact that he was so high profile also worked against him. How anyone would be able to drill down to the initial source is anybody’s guess because there are so many labs set up for the purpose as soon as you close one another opens up. Just like drugs in open society now, the money is too good to ever stop it. Every section of law enforcement and border protection has had and probably still has individuals caught up in it due to the big money involved.

Just a fact of life we all have to live with nowadays I guess.

It’s all so easy to fix I reckon.

Just have two tours.

Lets see, you could have to Tour De France …. for those cyclists who are clean , and just run it over the usual course for the month.

Then you could have the alternate competition say the … “Tour De Pharmacy” .......... for those who are high on roids or anything else they wish to pump thru their systems, a la Lance.

The “Tour De Pharmacy” could also be run over a month, but with each stage involving riding from one French pharmacy to the next.

Riders can nominate for either one or the other event, and sponsors will then know who and what they are backing

Having recently been in the position where I’ve had to run around to find a doctor, just so I can get a prescription filled, I’m tipping the record times will come from the non juiced up competitors, particularly if the French medical system is anything like ours.

Separating the two though will also reduce the number of tyre blowouts and crashes I suspect …........ as no longer will the back of the peleton be subjected to riding over all those nasty pointy syringes, that Lance and co have left in their wake..

Lance too, can then just get himself an engraver and re-word his 7 trophies, and get em altered from Tour De France to “Tour De Pharmacy”.

Problem solved.

I think Lance is innocent, I don’t care what he says.

What is this golf game you talk of?

On reflection I am with you. he is protecting his ?

A little maths for you, this is how you determine the cost per prisoner per day…..the subject is a regional prison in WA which has an annual budget of 19.6 million dollars and holds an average of 160 prisoners daily.
The budget covers all running costs including staff wages etc.

160 prisoners by $335daily by 365 days = $19.564m per annum. Simple hey? Obviously the bigger the prison, the more prisoners, the bigger the annual budget per prisoner.

Wages….$300daily by 365days = $109.5k per annum. There are no prisoner ofrs getting that as a base salary in WA……don’t believe me? Phone recruitment at Dept Corrective Services head office Perth and ask….it’s a matter of public record because it’s a govt job. Phone the prison ofrs union WAPOU…..they will tell you the pay rates.

You say I should check my sources?.......check who you play golf with mate, I probably know some of them:) The biggest part of any prison budget is wages obviously, and the only way to cut back on that is to go to privatisation where private prisons don’t hire as many staff so they make money that way. Another reason why the prison ofrs union is fighting privatisation in this state…it’s happened on a grand scale in the Eastern states and has already started here.

And don’t waste your time telling me I have no idea of costs, just one of my jobs is to administer and monitor this budget. As for your statement “why do you think so many people don’t go to prison….it’s cost and nothing else”….that is yet another perfect example of the bullshit you get engaged in. The courts determine who and how many land in prison and neither Corrective Services nor the state govt have any say in the matter. That is why they are overflowing statewide with too many prisoners and not enough bedspaces, that is why the state govt is cutting back on so many things in the dept because they do not have the money, ask your golf mates about that also, their union is fighting for a pay rise right now due to the increased workloads due to excess prisoners. Still take people like Lance baby though, they don’t have any choice :)

Amazing who you meet on the internet isn’t it? You really need to bear that in mind in future when you relate some of your stories :) There endeth the lesson.

Show up, keep up, shut up.

what your not factoring is in the costs like cousellors, trainers, mentors that go into prisons to help people through the rehab process, GP’s, shrinks and teachers. Also visist to the ommunity that community groups assit in running are not paid by the prison.

the figures you see on websites from the department of justice are only what it cost that government department to run a prsion divided by the number of prisoners.

I have seen the departement of corrections website too which quotes about $353.90 per day

by the way its 35 dollars a day in the community just to give some perspective as to why jusdges in Australia keep people out of jail

youre also 30% less likely to secure long term employment once you have been in prison also – so these people then go onto welfare – again costing the taxpayer more cash. Adds up doesnt it?

something which YOU didnt factor in!

that cost you quoted is calculated on what it cost the department of corrections – I go into prisons to to work with clients and we are not paid by the prison to be there.

Add the cost to the tax payer and youll find its about $1000 per day

anyways I feel Lance will go to jail at some point and for a day or so it makes everyone feel good and fluffy “yeah got em that learn ya” but really the next drug cheat will not be thinking about Lance in the clink when he drops the syringe into his arm to cheat

Marion Jones went to prison while Lance was still racing!

she qwas sponsored by Nike too, so was Tiger…so was Jordan

maybe a another thread on squeaky clean nike eh??

anyways good debate and Nike will make coin still

I think Lance is innocent, I don’t care what he says.

What is this golf game you talk of?

This is genius. Mate, you should post more often.

The more you hit your keyboard Dave, the less credibility you have. You are seriously trying to say it costs $365,000 a year to house a prisoner…...bahahaha.

As for your stats about it being 30% less likely to secure long term employment….... have you questioned why that may be? Usually not because they were imprisoned. As you should know, it is because a large percentage of the prison population have major drug addictions- usually well before they were imprisoned…....and were more than likely to have not had secure employment anyway. I suggest that when you are studying for your D&A course, make sure your critique what you are spoonfed.

BTW- what topic is Lance going to discuss on the school lecture circuit again? Kids, stop using EPO, I know you are all on it at the weekend parties you go to…..stop it or you will end up like me….talking to pimply faced fools like you everyday.
The kids will be so receptive, you will be out of a job.

The question I would like answered is:

Was the drug culture in place before Lance, or did “he” instigate it?

If the culture is in place then names need to be named, and the root of the problem rooted out. The “he” is in quotes because I find hard to believe a cyclist singularly would have the knowledge and sources to instigate a culture of drug use.

Initial Handicap (11/02/2012): 18.6
Current Handicap: 16.8 Goal Handicap (end of 2012): 15

http://www.golflink.com.au/…

It appears that drugs are now, and have been for quite some time, involved in most areas of professional sport. Good money to be made in the masking drugs that hide the detection of the main drug. Lance Armstrong is just one of the people who got caught up in it because with endorsements there is huge money involved……he is probably no more responsible than hundreds of others, he just had a more “efficient” system working that’s all, his system got a bit big and loose lips brought it undone. The fact that he was so high profile also worked against him. How anyone would be able to drill down to the initial source is anybody’s guess because there are so many labs set up for the purpose as soon as you close one another opens up. Just like drugs in open society now, the money is too good to ever stop it. Every section of law enforcement and border protection has had and probably still has individuals caught up in it due to the big money involved.

Just a fact of life we all have to live with nowadays I guess.

Show up, keep up, shut up.

since 1924 when the first drug cheat was ousted from the tour

I reckon every sport has cheats even golf at the pro level would have people cheating in some way

I reckon there would be a few guys using benzos which can have a calming effect – they could be using ice as recreation drug which can be flushed within 24-36 hours

also drugs like zoloft also can used fr that

again no evidence but every sport has cheats because people like winning more than they do losing

what your not factoring is in the costs like cousellors, trainers, mentors that go into prisons to help people through the rehab process, GP’s, shrinks and teachers. Also visist to the ommunity that community groups assit in running are not paid by the prison.

the figures you see on websites from the department of justice are only what it cost that government department to run a prsion divided by the number of prisoners.

I have seen the departement of corrections website too which quotes about $353.90 per day

by the way its 35 dollars a day in the community just to give some perspective as to why jusdges in Australia keep people out of jail

youre also 30% less likely to secure long term employment once you have been in prison also – so these people then go onto welfare – again costing the taxpayer more cash. Adds up doesnt it?

something which YOU didnt factor in!

that cost you quoted is calculated on what it cost the department of corrections – I go into prisons to to work with clients and we are not paid by the prison to be there.

Add the cost to the tax payer and youll find its about $1000 per day

anyways I feel Lance will go to jail at some point and for a day or so it makes everyone feel good and fluffy “yeah got em that learn ya” but really the next drug cheat will not be thinking about Lance in the clink when he drops the syringe into his arm to cheat

Marion Jones went to prison while Lance was still racing!

she qwas sponsored by Nike too, so was Tiger…so was Jordan

maybe a another thread on squeaky clean nike eh??

anyways good debate and Nike will make coin still

Well you have adjusted your figues of $2,000 per day down to $1,000 per day, that’s a start I guess. No mention of the extra highly paid group of ofrs that get $300 per day however…..did you manage to check that out whilst you were busy scouring Google to find some facts? Take the easy way out and ask to see a payslip, it shows the hourly rate and the annual rate just to make it easy for you. You will probably see that a 5 year ofr gets about $71.5k annually but it does vary slightly downwards dependent on the region they work in….there, saved you the trouble…..not quite $300 daily though I fear.

I have not seen the website quoting $353.90 per day, I don’t need to check on those things because amongst other things I deal with the real figures daily….I must say I was a little surprised at the up to date and near accuracy though, quite unusual for a govt dept these days :)..still not really up there with the $2k daily initially stated by yourself though.

You continue to harp on about judges keeping people out of prison to save money, I can only suggest you go talk to some about your concerns.

As has already been stated in earlier post, by far the vast majority of people who are sentenced to prison are not engaged in employment prior to prison anyway, they are generally on welfare so if your figures of 30% less likely to secure long term employment on release are factual it shows a bit of a trend really…..it’s not conducive to helping your argument in this instance however it shows you are doing some reading of the handouts they are probably providing you I suppose.

I won’t comment too much on the claims you make about all the prison-unpaid visits to your “clients” that you make inside prisons, I don’t really want to piss all over your chosen vocation and ask you about your success rate percentages that you could display to justify the tax-payers outlay that you appear to be so concerned about, but the dept does in fact employ their own education staff in prisons and also has arrangements with TAFE under govt to govt contracts for a certain amount of training/educational hours per annum….they also employ their own shrinks…that too is factored into budgets, everything is, it has to be…..just like your home budget if you have one.

Why the comment on Nike gets a mention is beyond me, I stated categorically in an earlier post that I have no sympathy with Nike and some other giant conglomerates, they share the same business ethos and morality values as Lance Armstrong and they deserve each other.

In light of the disparity in the figures that you initially quoted and the subsequent ammended ones you now quote, I would ask again, like I have in previous threads about other unrelated issues, please avoid throwing bullshit into the debate when it appears that your case is faltering….it completely destroys what credibility you think you may have in such matters. Good luck in your new vocational endeavours and I hope you find the warm and fuzzy solace you appear to be seeking to make you feel good….in the meantime, the rest of us will continue to go about our business of dealing with the real world.

Sensational post.

what your not factoring is in the costs like cousellors, trainers, mentors that go into prisons to help people through the rehab process, GP’s, shrinks and teachers. Also visist to the ommunity that community groups assit in running are not paid by the prison.

the figures you see on websites from the department of justice are only what it cost that government department to run a prsion divided by the number of prisoners.

I have seen the departement of corrections website too which quotes about $353.90 per day

by the way its 35 dollars a day in the community just to give some perspective as to why jusdges in Australia keep people out of jail

youre also 30% less likely to secure long term employment once you have been in prison also – so these people then go onto welfare – again costing the taxpayer more cash. Adds up doesnt it?

something which YOU didnt factor in!

that cost you quoted is calculated on what it cost the department of corrections – I go into prisons to to work with clients and we are not paid by the prison to be there.

Add the cost to the tax payer and youll find its about $1000 per day

anyways I feel Lance will go to jail at some point and for a day or so it makes everyone feel good and fluffy “yeah got em that learn ya” but really the next drug cheat will not be thinking about Lance in the clink when he drops the syringe into his arm to cheat

Marion Jones went to prison while Lance was still racing!

she qwas sponsored by Nike too, so was Tiger…so was Jordan

maybe a another thread on squeaky clean nike eh??

anyways good debate and Nike will make coin still

Well you have adjusted your figues of $2,000 per day down to $1,000 per day, that’s a start I guess. No mention of the extra highly paid group of ofrs that get $300 per day however…..did you manage to check that out whilst you were busy scouring Google to find some facts? Take the easy way out and ask to see a payslip, it shows the hourly rate and the annual rate just to make it easy for you. You will probably see that a 5 year ofr gets about $71.5k annually but it does vary slightly downwards dependent on the region they work in….there, saved you the trouble…..not quite $300 daily though I fear.

I have not seen the website quoting $353.90 per day, I don’t need to check on those things because amongst other things I deal with the real figures daily….I must say I was a little surprised at the up to date and near accuracy though, quite unusual for a govt dept these days :)..still not really up there with the $2k daily initially stated by yourself though.

You continue to harp on about judges keeping people out of prison to save money, I can only suggest you go talk to some about your concerns.

As has already been stated in earlier post, by far the vast majority of people who are sentenced to prison are not engaged in employment prior to prison anyway, they are generally on welfare so if your figures of 30% less likely to secure long term employment on release are factual it shows a bit of a trend really…..it’s not conducive to helping your argument in this instance however it shows you are doing some reading of the handouts they are probably providing you I suppose.

I won’t comment too much on the claims you make about all the prison-unpaid visits to your “clients” that you make inside prisons, I don’t really want to piss all over your chosen vocation and ask you about your success rate percentages that you could display to justify the tax-payers outlay that you appear to be so concerned about, but the dept does in fact employ their own education staff in prisons and also has arrangements with TAFE under govt to govt contracts for a certain amount of training/educational hours per annum….they also employ their own shrinks…that too is factored into budgets, everything is, it has to be…..just like your home budget if you have one.

Why the comment on Nike gets a mention is beyond me, I stated categorically in an earlier post that I have no sympathy with Nike and some other giant conglomerates, they share the same business ethos and morality values as Lance Armstrong and they deserve each other.

In light of the disparity in the figures that you initially quoted and the subsequent ammended ones you now quote, I would ask again, like I have in previous threads about other unrelated issues, please avoid throwing bullshit into the debate when it appears that your case is faltering….it completely destroys what credibility you think you may have in such matters. Good luck in your new vocational endeavours and I hope you find the warm and fuzzy solace you appear to be seeking to make you feel good….in the meantime, the rest of us will continue to go about our business of dealing with the real world.

Show up, keep up, shut up.

Bad day at banksia today

Maybe you can do some good there

Wa corrections are the worst in the country and with Dh’s like you working there then it doesnt suprise me …

Maybe start with telling your officers that humans need sunlight!!

Your great at your job …NOT!!!

NOW WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO SAY

DEATHS IN WA CUSTODY

WA CORRECTIONS are a disgrace! Hpmmm

Want to keep going fh…Bring it mate!

what your not factoring is in the costs like cousellors, trainers, mentors that go into prisons to help people through the rehab process, GP’s, shrinks and teachers. Also visist to the ommunity that community groups assit in running are not paid by the prison.

the figures you see on websites from the department of justice are only what it cost that government department to run a prsion divided by the number of prisoners.

I have seen the departement of corrections website too which quotes about $353.90 per day

by the way its 35 dollars a day in the community just to give some perspective as to why jusdges in Australia keep people out of jail

youre also 30% less likely to secure long term employment once you have been in prison also – so these people then go onto welfare – again costing the taxpayer more cash. Adds up doesnt it?

something which YOU didnt factor in!

that cost you quoted is calculated on what it cost the department of corrections – I go into prisons to to work with clients and we are not paid by the prison to be there.

Add the cost to the tax payer and youll find its about $1000 per day

anyways I feel Lance will go to jail at some point and for a day or so it makes everyone feel good and fluffy “yeah got em that learn ya” but really the next drug cheat will not be thinking about Lance in the clink when he drops the syringe into his arm to cheat

Marion Jones went to prison while Lance was still racing!

she qwas sponsored by Nike too, so was Tiger…so was Jordan

maybe a another thread on squeaky clean nike eh??

anyways good debate and Nike will make coin still

Well you have adjusted your figues of $2,000 per day down to $1,000 per day, that’s a start I guess. No mention of the extra highly paid group of ofrs that get $300 per day however…..did you manage to check that out whilst you were busy scouring Google to find some facts? Take the easy way out and ask to see a payslip, it shows the hourly rate and the annual rate just to make it easy for you. You will probably see that a 5 year ofr gets about $71.5k annually but it does vary slightly downwards dependent on the region they work in….there, saved you the trouble…..not quite $300 daily though I fear.

I have not seen the website quoting $353.90 per day, I don’t need to check on those things because amongst other things I deal with the real figures daily….I must say I was a little surprised at the up to date and near accuracy though, quite unusual for a govt dept these days :)..still not really up there with the $2k daily initially stated by yourself though.

You continue to harp on about judges keeping people out of prison to save money, I can only suggest you go talk to some about your concerns.

As has already been stated in earlier post, by far the vast majority of people who are sentenced to prison are not engaged in employment prior to prison anyway, they are generally on welfare so if your figures of 30% less likely to secure long term employment on release are factual it shows a bit of a trend really…..it’s not conducive to helping your argument in this instance however it shows you are doing some reading of the handouts they are probably providing you I suppose.

I won’t comment too much on the claims you make about all the prison-unpaid visits to your “clients” that you make inside prisons, I don’t really want to piss all over your chosen vocation and ask you about your success rate percentages that you could display to justify the tax-payers outlay that you appear to be so concerned about, but the dept does in fact employ their own education staff in prisons and also has arrangements with TAFE under govt to govt contracts for a certain amount of training/educational hours per annum….they also employ their own shrinks…that too is factored into budgets, everything is, it has to be…..just like your home budget if you have one.

Why the comment on Nike gets a mention is beyond me, I stated categorically in an earlier post that I have no sympathy with Nike and some other giant conglomerates, they share the same business ethos and morality values as Lance Armstrong and they deserve each other.

In light of the disparity in the figures that you initially quoted and the subsequent ammended ones you now quote, I would ask again, like I have in previous threads about other unrelated issues, please avoid throwing bullshit into the debate when it appears that your case is faltering….it completely destroys what credibility you think you may have in such matters. Good luck in your new vocational endeavours and I hope you find the warm and fuzzy solace you appear to be seeking to make you feel good….in the meantime, the rest of us will continue to go about our business of dealing with the real world.

Show up, keep up, shut up.

Care to comment on banksia?

Just to make another point about your rubbery figures Dave. You may be aware that ‘white collar’ crims usually do their time on low secuirty prison farms where it costs a lot less to ‘rehabilitate’ (haha) them. Not that the cost has anything to do with judges setting a custodial order or not. I am yet to hear in any judgement that the judge weighed up the cost to the taxpayer as an influencing factor in their final judgement. I would be happy if you could send any links to such judgements.

As for wages of the PO’s in WA. If they are getting what you say they are, can you please send me an application. I know the PO’s in Vic could bump their earnings up to the $100k mark before tax if they work double shifts and on their days off. Their base would be no where close to mine and mine is only $80k.

On your figures of $2000 a day. You are effectively saying that each prisoner has two prison officers supervising him/her around the clock. How funny are you? That sounds about like overkill. I have heard WA is a violent place but that is funny. I get you now, you are taking the piss. Hands up, I fell for the bait.

what your not factoring is in the costs like cousellors, trainers, mentors that go into prisons to help people through the rehab process, GP’s, shrinks and teachers. Also visist to the ommunity that community groups assit in running are not paid by the prison.

the figures you see on websites from the department of justice are only what it cost that government department to run a prsion divided by the number of prisoners.

I have seen the departement of corrections website too which quotes about $353.90 per day

by the way its 35 dollars a day in the community just to give some perspective as to why jusdges in Australia keep people out of jail

youre also 30% less likely to secure long term employment once you have been in prison also – so these people then go onto welfare – again costing the taxpayer more cash. Adds up doesnt it?

something which YOU didnt factor in!

that cost you quoted is calculated on what it cost the department of corrections – I go into prisons to to work with clients and we are not paid by the prison to be there.

Add the cost to the tax payer and youll find its about $1000 per day

anyways I feel Lance will go to jail at some point and for a day or so it makes everyone feel good and fluffy “yeah got em that learn ya” but really the next drug cheat will not be thinking about Lance in the clink when he drops the syringe into his arm to cheat

Marion Jones went to prison while Lance was still racing!

she qwas sponsored by Nike too, so was Tiger…so was Jordan

maybe a another thread on squeaky clean nike eh??

anyways good debate and Nike will make coin still

Well you have adjusted your figues of $2,000 per day down to $1,000 per day, that’s a start I guess. No mention of the extra highly paid group of ofrs that get $300 per day however…..did you manage to check that out whilst you were busy scouring Google to find some facts? Take the easy way out and ask to see a payslip, it shows the hourly rate and the annual rate just to make it easy for you. You will probably see that a 5 year ofr gets about $71.5k annually but it does vary slightly downwards dependent on the region they work in….there, saved you the trouble…..not quite $300 daily though I fear.

I have not seen the website quoting $353.90 per day, I don’t need to check on those things because amongst other things I deal with the real figures daily….I must say I was a little surprised at the up to date and near accuracy though, quite unusual for a govt dept these days :)..still not really up there with the $2k daily initially stated by yourself though.

You continue to harp on about judges keeping people out of prison to save money, I can only suggest you go talk to some about your concerns.

As has already been stated in earlier post, by far the vast majority of people who are sentenced to prison are not engaged in employment prior to prison anyway, they are generally on welfare so if your figures of 30% less likely to secure long term employment on release are factual it shows a bit of a trend really…..it’s not conducive to helping your argument in this instance however it shows you are doing some reading of the handouts they are probably providing you I suppose.

I won’t comment too much on the claims you make about all the prison-unpaid visits to your “clients” that you make inside prisons, I don’t really want to piss all over your chosen vocation and ask you about your success rate percentages that you could display to justify the tax-payers outlay that you appear to be so concerned about, but the dept does in fact employ their own education staff in prisons and also has arrangements with TAFE under govt to govt contracts for a certain amount of training/educational hours per annum….they also employ their own shrinks…that too is factored into budgets, everything is, it has to be…..just like your home budget if you have one.

Why the comment on Nike gets a mention is beyond me, I stated categorically in an earlier post that I have no sympathy with Nike and some other giant conglomerates, they share the same business ethos and morality values as Lance Armstrong and they deserve each other.

In light of the disparity in the figures that you initially quoted and the subsequent ammended ones you now quote, I would ask again, like I have in previous threads about other unrelated issues, please avoid throwing bullshit into the debate when it appears that your case is faltering….it completely destroys what credibility you think you may have in such matters. Good luck in your new vocational endeavours and I hope you find the warm and fuzzy solace you appear to be seeking to make you feel good….in the meantime, the rest of us will continue to go about our business of dealing with the real world.

Show up, keep up, shut up.

Bad day at banksia today

Maybe you can do some good there

Wa corrections are the worst in the country and with Dh’s like you working there then it doesnt suprise me …

Maybe start with telling your officers that humans need sunlight!!

Your great at your job …NOT!!!

NOW WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO SAY

DEATHS IN WA CUSTODY

WA CORRECTIONS are a disgrace! Hpmmm

Want to keep going fh…Bring it mate!

We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give. Winston Churchill

It sounds like you may be prepared to assault wolfe dave. Careful you could end up in jail.

Sounds like Dave_1 is back on the juice again. Steady on there fella, it’s only the internet.

whatever dude…I was bit OOT yep my bad, I’m done on this topic – I cant be bothered and THB we wont agree

no need t to keep banging heads

finally on the lance thing

he will go to jail and guess what? there will still be a heap of drug cheats in this tour de france

if anything Lances trials and tribulations have shown that fs youre clever enough you can actually get away with for a very long time

and Im sure plenty havent been caught

the UCI officials involved should also be sacked – they knew and did nothing

the scientest working fot the cyclists will be ahead of the game

I’m done!

Are you done because you can’t maintain a coherent argument?

Ok so what is considered as doping to enhance performance?
Where do they draw a line in the sand?
So if you take some thing natural which gives you protein, helps you recover better etc that is ok ? Although you take supplements and your a drug cheat?
You can take sugar hits from fruit extracts etc whilst riding this increases performance, although you shoot up the same stuff using a syringe from a lab and your a cheat.
A guy guzzles water all the way and another guy shoots up saline and he’s a cheat.

It doesn’t really make much sense.

My biggest question yeah he was on the juice and so was every one else, although if every one else was on it did he have an advantage over the others?
Lance Armstrong at the end of the day had a lower heart rate than the others, what this means is he could ride at the same cadence as the others with a lower heart rate. Cycling is a heart rate game. All Lance has to do is step up his cadence and heart rate going up hills. All he had to do is max out the others half way up the climbs, then would hit and wall, they would drop off. He only needs 500 metres start on them time he reaches the top, Once he got to the top he pedalled like hell and there is no catching him.

My biggest question is yes he cheated although what advantage did he have with them over the others being on them. It still boiled down to human performance didn’t it?
Lance still had the better heart rate and cadence over the others is how he still won.
If the others weren’t on it as well they had no hope against him. The others took them to be competitive. To me it appears Lance took them so he didn’t lose the edge he had over the others.

Seems like a one way street Lance gest fingered over it and because the others couldn’t keep up they resort to cheating, which in my eyes is even worse, then they point the bone at Lance he’s a drug cheat.

The ban on drugs is because they are performance enhancement, I think it is bull dust he got stripped of his 7 titles when everyone else was on the juice as well. If every one is on the juice how can it be deemed he had enhanced his performance over others who are also on the juice. Seem like an even playing field to me.
Fair play stripe the guy if he was the only dude on it although he wasn’t.
The biggest question is even though Lance was on drugs, like the others, did he still win it fair and square, if he did why strip him of his titles then. It still boiled down to human performance regardless of the drugs they were all on.
Not that I’m saying it is ok to take drugs either, just looking at it from another angle.

Zen, I think you have all but completely missed the point. Are you confident that 100% of entrants in the race were on juice?
If there was one other person in the race that was clean than Lance has an illegal advantage over that person – if that is the case that even if it is one person your whole argument falls down, is that fair?
Or does it only count if the guys at the top are all on them cause they are the only ones who might win?
It is the excuse of a six year old that “I only did it cause the others were”
It is clear that you are choosing not to believe that Lance has done anything wrong and that’s cool, that’s your call. I believe that is highly delusional but cool.
Fruit is not on the banned substance list, fairly simple.