This question came up yesterday with a young player who was trying to get his swing more upright. It struck me because I have been working on flattening my swing out, which is something I have been wanting to do for a long time but didn’t have the time to do it back when I was competing on tour.

There is an interesting yin and yang ideal here.

The flat swing should hit the ball straighter, while the upright swing should give a golfer the chance for a longer more powerful motion… more time on the downswing to generate velocity.

To demonstrate the ideal of flat being the straight option, for simplicity sake, let’s take a club with zero loft… let’s call it a zero iron. If you were to stand tall, fairly close to ball, and swing very upright, you would have a vast array of direction possibilities. If you came OTT you could hit extreme pulls and even chop it and shoot the ball between your legs.
Likewise you could hit from the inside and easily push the ball off to the right 45 degrees with an inside out motion.

Now if you look at the opposite situation, let’s put the same golfer on their knees, now swinging on a very flat plane..and hit the same kind of shots. The OTT swing actually just hits the ball lower. Likewise, with an inside out swing you would have a very difficult time hitting pushing the ball or starting it way right assuming you’re fully extented.
In other words, with a zero loft club, open and closing the clubface has more to do with trajectory and not direction. Shut face low, open face high shots.. from this extreme flat plane model.

Now if you look at the games straitest hitters, certainly some flat swings come to mind.
For me, Hogan, Trevino, Moe Norman. If you look at the world’s longest hitters, long drive champions and so on, you see a lot of very upright swings.

How many of you have experimented or had thoughts on making your swing more upright or flat? and if so, what were your reasons for doing so?

Very interesting subject, Lag. I actually have been toying with changing swing planes, because I was experimenting with Stack and Tilt. On the dvds, they instruct to start at address on the hands plane, and come up to the elbow plane. That is lower than I am used to (I normally went elbow to turned shoulder plane).

I did notice that I was feeling a bit more accurate on the lower plane, but I figured it was because they teach a hitter’s pattern for stack and tilt, and hitting is normally a little more accurate than swinging (at least for me).

P.S. On their shortgame dvd, P & B recommend standing vey close to the ball with the club very upright for chipping, because they claim that it causes the the shot to go much straighter. Again, they were talking about chipping, not full swings. Not sure if you agree or not, but just thought I would mention it.

Picking the correct swing plane for your basic motion is very important.
What would seem like such a simple thing can become extremely complex and confusing for many.

The swing plane can be a true flat plane for putting and chip shots, but if anyone has ever tried to build a swing plane that is truly flat, cut a hole in the middle and tried to swing on this perfect plane you will quickly realize that the plane that you address the club on is not the plane you are going to be taking full swings on. This one plane concept would put a golfer’s hands just above waist high at the top of their backswing, and of course the same mirrored position would be applied to the finish if golf where such a perfect world.

This address picture shows a pretty standard address position.

From the 1rst parallel, the plane shifts to something more upright.
You could think of the plane resting on a set of hinges that attach to the plane line on the ground. As the club moves from the 1rst parallel to the top, the plane would lift as if someone was pushing up on it from behind you, all the while the plane is still connected to the hinges that are on the ground resting on your target line.

It can of course be ignored on the backswing, but not as easily on the downswing. This plane, as it has been lifted from P1 to P2, must then come back down. This plane shift is the cause of much drama and confusion for golfers of all walks of life. Even the Jim Furyk’s of the world are making a huge out to in move to assist in this back down to the impact plane. It certainly makes more sense to pick the club up and drop it back “in” then to go the other way, although that motion has been done effectively too (Raymond Floyd)... but the out to in offers a smooth circular flow that can aid in a golfers rhythm and feel.

Obviously there are a lot of ways to get the club to the top. Most good golfers will favor an out to in looping action if they are attempting to get rid of their beginners slice.

Another point of confusion is that our eyes are not in line with the plane of the club. No one I have ever seen swings on an “eye plane”. This of course would offer the best view for a straight back straight through visual line… and the golfer would see not arc or circle… but human beings are just not design for such a beautiful application. Instead we are visually looking down at the plane, and a shifting one also from a bird’s eye view.

To further confuse us, our clubshaft compresses into our body on the downswing, (or a least is should!) so even if we did use such a perfect plane, the arc that we see on the downswing is going to be much different than that arc we see on our take away. It’s really no wonder that golf is such an incredible mystery and endless point of confusion for most all golfers, and I can assure you I spent many moons in contemplation on this very subject and still continue to do so.

Now knowing that we must make such a plane shift, it would be obvious that the less we have to shift, the simpler and more repeatable our motion can be. I believe this is in fact very true.
But of course the greater this shift, the longer our swing can be,
the less the body has to get involved, and we can attain a certain amount of power from just having a really long swing. Putting acceleration aside, our instinct is usually to take a longer backswing
to hit the ball further. Of course this big plane shift opens the door for a whole lot of potential problems in the swing. How do we get back to that original flat plane that we started on?

What are you feeling in your swing and the search for your correct swing plane?

I’d like to make my swing more upright, because flat just makes my ball flight too tow.

This question came up yesterday with a young player who was trying to get his swing more upright. It struck me because I have been working on flattening my swing out, which is something I have been wanting to do for a long time but didn’t have the time to do it back when I was competing on tour.

There is an interesting yin and yang ideal here.

The flat swing should hit the ball straighter, while the upright swing should give a golfer the chance for a longer more powerful motion… more time on the downswing to generate velocity.

To demonstrate the ideal of flat being the straight option, for simplicity sake, let’s take a club with zero loft… let’s call it a zero iron. If you were to stand tall, fairly close to ball, and swing very upright, you would have a vast array of direction possibilities. If you came OTT you could hit extreme pulls and even chop it and shoot the ball between your legs.
Likewise you could hit from the inside and easily push the ball off to the right 45 degrees with an inside out motion.

Now if you look at the opposite situation, let’s put the same golfer on their knees, now swinging on a very flat plane..and hit the same kind of shots. The OTT swing actually just hits the ball lower. Likewise, with an inside out swing you would have a very difficult time hitting pushing the ball or starting it way right assuming you’re fully extented.
In other words, with a zero loft club, open and closing the clubface has more to do with trajectory and not direction. Shut face low, open face high shots.. from this extreme flat plane model.

Now if you look at the games straitest hitters, certainly some flat swings come to mind.
For me, Hogan, Trevino, Moe Norman. If you look at the world’s longest hitters, long drive champions and so on, you see a lot of very upright swings.

How many of you have experimented or had thoughts on making your swing more upright or flat? and if so, what were your reasons for doing so?

Lag Pressure throwaway is the root of all golf’s evils

Very true.
This is my 4th year playin golf, and the more i play it, the more i’m surprised at this game.
My first ever coach was a coach only, not a player. And he wanted me to have “the perfect swing”.
But it was his perfect swing, and not mine. His was very upright, and i wanted to hit draws. Now hitting draws with an upright swing is all very well, but i also wanted some sorta consistency also. That didn’t happen.
I could have a great ball striking day, and yet still have rope hooks, snap cuts, all in the one round.
Anyway, long story short, we had a fight, and i left his coaching, and found my current coach, at Wairakei International.
He’s a highly recognised coach, and i found that out straight away. Intelligent, resourceful, and could explain a million things about 1 thing.
About my swing, he taught me the flatter more “on plane” swing. e.g club head in or just outside hands at parallel, then going on to through shoulder, hands infront of chest, etc. This went well, straight away. However on the downswing i drop it into a “flat” position, so i’m told.
This, i am happy with. I hit draws as my stock shot, and 8-9/10 it’s very consistent. I like to think of myself as a ball striker (which means my short game blows :l), and my stats show this too.
I play the fade by not dropping it in, and playing the club head outside my hands, so again it’s simple golf.
To be honest, i don’t believe the top 10 golfers in the world at the moment have upright swings.
And those that do have upright swings, and win one week, seemingly are not in contention the next.
I’d be interested to look at both european and us tour stats, and see who hit the most greens and fairways.. then compare their swings and see who actually are flat, and who are upright.
Good topic.

Given that there are many ways to arrive at the same position at the top, as we are all quite aware by the vast array of backswings we see.
The trip back down doesn’t have as many possibilities.

The upright swing plane certainly offers it’s challenges to get the club back down to impact or elbow plane. The most common and easiest would be to come down with steep shoulders. A slide of the hips helps this action too. This also tends to work well with a swingers “dump” into the ball. Steep shoulders would be a better choice for the player who doesn’t have a fast body rotation. The steep delivery works nicely with a full roll horizontal hinging action.

A flat downswing shoulder turn is the recipe for OTT. This of course can be countered by using the right arm to straighten on the downswing. This is tough stuff for most golfers. Teaching a player to turn flat, but at the same time, straighten the right arm is very difficult to do, and more difficult to teach. I can’t think of a move in the golf swing that could feel more unnatural. It can be done however, and Mac O Grady is really big on this procedure. If a player can master it, it is a very powerful and effective way to get back down to impact plane.

The flat backswing player really wants to just “do away with” as much of this plane shifting confusion as possible. It certainly makes sense from intellectual view, less shift the better, more repeatable.
But the problem for most people that try a flat backswing is they don’t have the ability to rotate fast enough to make up for the loss of swing radius. Most golfer’s lose distance, don’t have the forearm rotational speed to provide a good deal of power accumulator #3 as well.

The big advantage of the flat backswing beyond the minimal plane shifting is that a player can really hit hard with the body on the way down. The golfer doesn’t have to wait, or be gentle with the shift back down as does the upright swing. The short compact and quick looking swing, that has that “simple” look can really work well if the golfer can learn to rotate quickly, and then apply a lot of #3 forearm rotation.

Hogan loved the super flat action, and it worked great for him because he really had some of the best body rotational speed and great forearm rotation. He could just turn as hard and fast as he wanted with the body, but this ONLY works if the arms are packed hard into the body and the plane is quite flat.

An upright swing with a super fast rotational transition is an absolute train wreck. The only chance to do this would be to loop the club from out to in, so that the club is literally thrown down into the slot,
and never feels like it stops.. I’ve seen this action work if done right.

I do think this is one of the most misunderstood concepts (plane)
and it would be great to hear more from everyone here about their feelings and experiences, in the quest for perfecting and understanding the action and motion that works best for the individual.

Hogan loved the super flat action, and it worked great for him because he really had some of the best body rotational speed and great forearm rotation. He could just turn as hard and fast as he wanted with the body, but this ONLY works if the arms are packed hard into the body and the plane is quite flat.

Lag-

Is this similar to what P & B are teaching with the Stack and Tilt? They instruct to keep both arms tight to the body throughout the swing (they say on the dvd that some of their players practice by keeping a tee under each armpit). The also instruct take the club up on a hands to elbow plane, then back down elbow.

What planes did Hogan swing on?

Lag,

Does the height/build of the golfer have any bearing on the plane they swing on? Tall V’s short – Slim V’s Cuddly?

OC

My experience. Have been playing for 4.5 years and am down to 4hcp. I am self taught but have had one lesson a year ( mainly to use my ball rundown money) with 4 different teachers so 4 lessons in total. My swing is quite flat and the each of the last 2 teachers have told me to get my swing more upright, but when I try to do this all that results is push/cuts and the control is just not there.

The consistency of the upright swing is just not there “for me” with lots of cuts and pushes. So I always revert back to my natural swing as it allows me to be consistent. Whilst my swing is short, at least I am on the short stuff but another 20m would help off the tee:)

I will try a quicker forearm rotation. However when I try and quicken my body up I end up pushing the ball more ofetn than not.

The only negative for me, and I not sure if it is consistent with flat swingers or if I get a bit flippy, is that my contact is sometimes skinny.

A wise old fellow once made the comment “flat tends to the Horizontal (Hinge) and steeper to the Vertical (Hinge).

Ball positioning for straight away flight changes for each ‘steepeness or lack thereof of both plane and the clubface control mechanism that we use.

For most golfers learning a steeper plane is the starting point and once the Imperatives and clubface control has been if not mastered at least understood only then does a flatter plane become worth the extra power search. The feel of just a small flattening can be like feeling you are swinging on an aircraft carrier.

This is a very interesting thread. Very timely.

Confusion with swing plane, especially with my woods, has been teasing at me for a while. I’ve been using the dowels and flashlights to help me understand plane, but I’ve never understood how the flatter setup plane transitions to the plane at the top of the backswing and then back down again into impact.

At least I can see now that this is not an uncommon source of pain.

Guru – do the dowels help resolve this?

Sure can. The plane is the king of the entire process. The choice of which plane is up to you of course.

If you take your hands to the same place in your backswing each time the only thing changing will be its plane angle due to the length of the club. ie you are not having to make a flat driver turn, that happens all on its own because of the tool in the hand.

With your flashlights stand at different distances from the join in the wall and see what happens to the lights if your hands make the same motions or different ones.

Now if you wish to shift plane somewhere during a swing motion then to get back to impact fix something else has to be mirrored on the downswing, and or a totally different release motion will be required to get the job done vs a zero or single swing plane mechanism. Again with the lights if you wish to rotate the torso from the get go, you will see really fast that you have to do something that requires high levels of coordination to keep the shaft on plane!!!!!! Hogan was brilliant working that all out. You will see how hard it is until you “get it” even with flashlights in the downswing.

Remember standard address has zero to do with Impact alignments.

Dowels help you get to the impact fix delivery line that the right forearm must come into impact with. They feel weird to use though once the penny drops to what ‘it’ is about you may not need them that often again other than for revision when wheels are wonky.

Finster,

I am not familiar with “stack and tilt” but as far as swing plane options,
hands plane would be where the player sets up with the hands very low, and the right elbow would be significantly above the plane of the shaft. More often than not, these hands plane set ups have the toe of the club raised in the air, their hands usually come into the impact area much higher than they were at address. With the hands super low at address, it gives the golfer a pre cocked wrist condition, and helps a player set the hands early if that is their intention. I have seen a lot of good players with this kind of action.

Elbow plane is where most golfers and good players set up. Here the right forearm basically sets right on the plane of the shaft.

On the other extreme, you have a shoulder plane set up, here you have the golfer set up with the clubshaft and arms in a line that dissect
the shoulder.

Here are classic examples of three plane options

Aoki (hands) Hogan (elbow) Moe Norman (Shoulder)

Hogan starts roughly on elbow, shifts to just below shoulder, then back down to elbow and holds that tight over to the 4rth parallel.

OC

Height does play into your plane, Mac O Grady suggests bending the knees more at address to help flatten the plane for taller golfers.
By bending the knees, a golfer can get their torso more erect therefore setting up for a flatter rotation.

philsom68

It’s interesting to hear about your success with a flatter plane.
Your attempts at a faster body rotation are admirable and you should continue to pursue this if you would like more distance.
The faster you turn, the farther you can hit it, and also create more lag pressure in your hands which will lead to greater feel in your hands. Assuming you are also turning flat through the ball, you’ll have to coordinate your wrist rotation to match your body speed, and if you are hitting it to the right, you’ll need stronger quicker hands rotating through the ball. Again I would assume you are hitting with a angled hinge action (no roll) through impact.

Guru is correct that the flatter plane likes to horizontal hinge. This would be a flatter impact plane, the plane the golfer is actually using through the impact area, and not the address plane. These planes can be very different…

It’s very important also… to understand that the lie you have your clubs set at (flat or upright) is the right lie for your swing based upon the type of plane you choose to swing on. Players who like the idea of working toward a flat impact plane will be doomed by irons that are set up too upright.

Most golfers, from pro’s to amateurs…. do not bring their hands back to impact on the same plane they set up on, so be aware of this when you are getting your clubs set up. Also, most golfers bring their hands in much higher than they should into impact, and to get your irons set up to these alignments will have you doomed to that plane for as long as you own that set..

Personally I am a huge advocate of swinging on as flat a plane though impact as possible… and setting your irons up to your ideal impact alignments, is the best way to go.

How did you get your iron set setup when you went for a fitting?

Now if you wish to shift plane somewhere during a swing motion then to get back to impact fix something else has to be mirrored on the downswing, and or a totally different release motion will be required to get the job done vs a zero or single swing plane mechanism.

I thought lag was saying we are essentially forced to switch planes

From the 1rst parallel, the plane shifts to something more upright. You could think of the plane resting on a set of hinges that attach to the plane line on the ground. As the club moves from the 1rst parallel to the top, the plane would lift as if someone was pushing up on it from behind you, all the while the plane is still connected to the hinges that are on the ground resting on your target line.

If you do not start a swing from Impact Fix and go straight up your single plane, then you are forced to make a shift, from say Elbow to Turned Shoulder which you then come down on unless you revert back to the Elbow Plane.

It is a great point that you need your irons lie angle set to the impact conditions you wish to be swinging on. If you are going to change your swing plane whilst learning the game from where you are now you need to keep that in mind.

How did you get your iron set setup when you went for a fitting?

Will persevere with a faster body as I need more speed -similar handicap golfers at our club are 30m past me. Went through the dynamic fitting process so irons are upright – 64 degree 5 iron.

muntz

If you take a look at the photos I posted above of the three typical options for set up, we are forced to do some shifting of the plane, unless we set up like Moe Norman. Moe does the smallest shifting of swing planes I have ever seen and is also the straightest striker I have ever witnessed. I am too young to have seen Hogan in person but I have seen him on film and he appears to be equally impressive. I don’t think Aoki will go down in history as one of the great strikers of all time, but a great golfer nonetheless. He shows that extremely low hands at address are viable to some degree as an address option.
I can assure you his hands don’t come into impact that low though.

The important thing to remember is that you must be on plane from parallel 3 to parallel 4 while moving the club through the hitting area.

Easier said than done. The body can affect the path, the arms, the hands, cocking of the wrists, rotation of the wrists, all can have major impact on the path of the club and the position of the shaft in relation to a true textbook plane.

The beauty of Hogan is that his plane was very pure in both directions, and by having the shaft so on plane both to and from the ball he could swing the club very fast, both back and down. If you have a lot of manipulation going on it is very difficult to do this.
I like a quick tempo if the mechanics and geometry are correct. It keeps the swing more automatic, less time for over thinking during the swing, and provides the golfer with more feel in the hands through the outward centrifugal forces created by the sheer rotational speed both back and through.

The flashlight drill is excellent to get you in the ball park but the hands can still do all kinds of manipulations to get the light to point at the wall if not monitored correctly. Video taping from behind is very good to see both the path of the hands and the rotation of the wrists in relation to plane line. Taking backswings along a bench is good for that purpose only, backswing, I don’t like it at all for the downswing.

What do you do to practice your swing plane?

At the moment I’m using dowels when I practice to ingrain a feeling for keeping a firmer, more consistent position in the R wrist on my backswing instead of letting it flop all over the shop. I’ve started again at pitching 101 and having some spectacular success when I keep that R wrist bend intact through impact.

Any suggestions for other plane drills or practice keys? I’m sure Guru will have some ideas when we get the comms in sync.

I haven’t managed to get a video of my swing yet – I will see if my stills camera can cut the mustard – but there are some cheap handicams on the market these days, might convince the wife we need some birthday videos.

Would it be safe to say that there is little variation (between good players) in regard to geometry at impact? But lots more variation on the path they took to get there? Or does impact fix vary widely too?

I’ve noticed on Swing Vision that the R elbow gets tucked in nice and close to the body approaching impact which presumably allows for a flatter approach at impact. Don’t think that’s where I’m at.

Also… would you advocate average players look at incorporating a little bit of a deliberate loop at the top of the swing, i.e. pick the club up on a steepish plane, then loop the club down and to the inside to a flatter plane on the way back? Or is that the way of madness?

lag,

do you know what sort of lie angles Hogans play with as i woud be interested to know

NickE,

I have heard that Hogan had his irons bent 2 degrees flat off standard which would make sense since he was not a tall guy. If someone really wanted to know for sure, you could just measure the angle off an old film clip if you knew what club he was hitting. A nice “straight from behind” shot of an iron from the fairway would be good if you could catch it at impact. You would then take off 1/2 a degree for the flattening of the lie due to shaft flex (bowing down) and that would get you pretty close to what Hogan had his irons set at.

Muntz,

It’s true you won’t find much variation between the really good ball strikers at impact.. slight forward lean of the shaft and a flat left wrist.
But even at the pro level, there are differences too. The guys that strike it the best do bring into impact a shaft that is more pre stressed
and do hold the flex of the shaft longer than other players.

As far as a loop goes, I like the one you described above, steeper to flatter on the way down, because you have to get the shaft back down to your impact plane (elbow plane). I have seen a lot of great players with this type of action. A loop allows the good player to keep their hands in constant motion from start to finish, and this is also beneficial for the rhythm and feel of the swing. I can’t see why it would be advantageous to actually stop the hands completely, then change direction and hit the ball. It’s a good drill to educate the hands, but not advisable to interfere with the fluidity of a good players swing.

One of my good friends who was a fine tour player and won many events around the world is now teaching full time, and he tries to instruct his students to hook the ball first. If he can get then to move the club inside out and on a flat plane, he says he then has something to work with. From there he can work with their aiming point, low point, and type of release action to convert the hook into a powerful motion that hits it straight fairly easily. The OTT cutting motion that most amateurs apply is a dead end road. There is only so far you can go before you have to do the full swing overhaul.

As far as drills go… swinging back along the outside of a bench is good for the backswing but not the down swing. Flashlights are also good to get an understanding of the basics, but they have their limitations.

I really have yet to find a perfect swing plane drill that completely sets up the player for a flawless motion. It’s just not that simple in the full swing. Because of the fact that we don’t swing on an “eye plane” where the club would appear to move back and forth in a straight line, we are bombarded with endless optical illusions because we are looking down on the plane from above it. We see two different arcs (takeaway, and delivery) the plane shifts in a way that we can’t just build a plane out of plywood in the garage and swing on it. It won’t work for any swing past the 1rst parallel.

First you must choose between hitting and swinging.
Then you must get the body and torso to move the correct way to match that protocol.

Second you have to train the arms the correct movements to match that chosen torso rotation.

Thirdly you then train and educate the hands to move the shaft on plane based upon the motion of the body, torso, and arm action.

I don’t think there is a substitute for the watchful eye of a qualified instructor. Video is very helpful too. It won’t lie to you.

Before I would make a suggestion as to the ideal swing plane for a player, I would asses their body type, height and flexibility. I would then determine their proper impact fix for their body and size. Then we would go bend all their clubs. Then I would asses their forearm strength and potential for torso rotational speed, and left knee, left hip action. Then I would focus on their backswing length based upon whether or not they are hitting or swinging, and how flexible their torso can rotate, and the amount of extensor action they are comfortable applying. Finally I would have to look at the torso flexibility at the finish and the overall range of motion between the torso and the hips. Once all this is accounted for, then a swing plane prescription can be written.

I just don’t think there is a one plane for everyone protocol, or any universal drills that would be the same for everyone either.

This swing plane concept, to really get it right, to maximize the full long term potential of any given player is really tough stuff. Not impossible by any means though.

Great post there Lag’.

This brings up the small topic of “We are all different.” Just look the Paul Hart and I standing next to each other and we have the tall and small of it in a nutshell. Then within the forum we have great ball players and a lot of new players to the game.

With this in mind, Dart and myself “try to keep it simple” for the majority of the readers. Lag’s posts I find fascinating as they are where Dart and I take hands on students when we can see and explain much easier than in here. Lag’s explanations and “feel” are great reading.

So with all that in mind, for the majority of readers, the KISS principle is the best place to start with a simple pattern and once you are having fun with your game, then all these other pattern choices that still allow you to keep the Imperatives in place (FLW, On Plane, Lag) can be visited for a little “more.”

Great thread guys, very relevant to where I am in my swing right now.

I am not practicing at all really. Getting to the range once a fortnight that’s about it. However, I have in the last six months gone from Upright, which as a few here know results in an inside take away, if I concentrate really hard, I get it on plane but it’s difficult to say the least.

Before that my hands were further away, not flat, and I was shooting mid 70s and hitting the ball fairly consistently and taking nice even divots with a high ball flight.

Since I realised I was taking the club inside due to standing upright too much I pushed my hands back out to almost under my chin, as far as I could go where I still felt my grip and stance was relaxed. This I believe has resulted in a flatter swing. I can get away with this because I am 6’ 4” tall so the shortened swing actually helps with my timing. This let me hit my driver harder than I ever have because I have a good body turn, I have been doing Pilates twice a day for a number of years now and have always hit the ball hard anyway. I was hitting it hard enough to purchase a driver with an X Stiff shaft.

Last time I was at the range I went back to this swing but was hitting too many thin shots with my irons, so I started from scratch and reset my grip, this worked beautifully and was once again hitting my irons long and high with good consistent divots.

I am going back to the range this week with my new driver, and a mind to try a combination that includes the flat swing, the reset grip and a good hard body turn. This thread has given my inspiration to try this…. thanks guys I will keep you appraised of the situation. I really think I am back out past 300m with my driver, well over 120mph. My three wood was 102mph last time I timed it and that was with an unfamiliar club and no practice with the swing I was trying out.

Cliff: Find the article by Justin Tang in the Golf School….again no link so that you can find your way around the site and find other cool stuff:)

Kidding:)

He gives it more biff than many out there.

It was refreshing to read Justin’s article posted above, I am one to agree that many golfer’s are mislead to believe that they should start the downswing with a violent spinning of the hips. I have to go back and blame a lot of that mythology on Hogan’s book “Five Lessons”
where he shows the readers this big hip thrusting… to start the downswing. When misunderstood, it’s a disastrous move that has caused much pain for golfers trying to emulate the greatest striker of all time.

On the contrary, I actually believe that Hogan FELT such a move with his hips.. Why? because he was so coiled up with body, had such incredible extensor action, very little plane shift compared to most…and I have never seen such a huge torso rotation with so little hand” travel.

This is the key to Hogan’s swing in my opinion. He makes a 110 degree turn with his torso, aided by a straightened right leg maximizing hip slant…but his hands only travel half the distance. For most this would leave a big gap at the number 4 pressure point (left arm pit against the body) but Hogan goes flat and pins it close, fully packing the left arm against the body.

So from this position, Hogan could feel that his body would have to PLAY CATCH UP to his hands, which is the exact opposite sensation that the rest of the world of normal golfers experience.

The average golfer makes little body turn, and takes the club back with the hands and arms, so to properly time their downswing, they need to slow the body and let the hands catch up. That is why you see so many beginners casting the club from the top, coming OTT and any number of tragic events that lead to poorly struck shots.
Amazingly, people who cast from the top, with little body turn are actually doing the best thing they can do, because if they started with the a big hip turn and body rotation, the end result would be an even BIGGER TRAIN WRECK! With the club thrown from the top with no body rotation, the hacker can at least have a chance of making contact with the ball, but if they made no turn going back and just swung the arms and hands back, then spin their hips and shoulders toward the target like the illustrations in Hogan’s book, I doubt anyone could even hit the ball or make any kind of contact that would resemble a golf shot!

Try to put yourself in the position of Hogan at the top, and let me tell you… it’s going to hurt like hell! You’ll be using muscles you didn’t know you had, you’ll have to stretch your body like a seasoned yogi,
and extensor action (right arm pushing on the left to keep the left arm straight) that feels like it’s going to pull your left forearm out of the elbow socket. One you are here, then you can fire the hips like Hogan as fast and hard from the top as you can!! Just like his illustrations!!!

Have read Bob Torrance – Padraig Harrington’s coach and a serious Hogan student who seems to have spoken about the swing with Hogan himself – say that his understanding was that Hogan’s feeling was that he

“couldn’t get a razor blade between his left arm and his chest”.

Torrance also said something along the lines that the razor blade feeling wasn’t the reality, but that it was how Hogan felt and thought about it.

Quite a powerful image though.

(Here’s the link).