Dart,

After playing yet another round of extremely inconsistent golf I have decided to start again from scratch.

In order to do so I have a number of questions regarding Basic Motion.

1) Should you set up with a flat or bent left wrist?
2) Should you stand open or square to the target line?
3) Should the ball be positioned in the centre of the stance or opposite the left armpit?
4) How wide should your stance be?
5) How much weight should you have on your front foot?
6) Should your hips turn on the back swing and through swing?
6) How long or how many balls does it take to master?

head for the golf school section and work your way through the articles mate.

Royshh,

TGM has a precise Basic Motion Curriculum so I know you don’t have the book.

The idea of this is to have the simplest possible frame work to hang you swing ideas on. A base plan to start from. The movement is back and up, down and out, up and in like a windscreen washer or an upside down metronome on an angle.

If TBM is OK there could be no OTT or steering, just a nice inside to inside swing or hit.

So for a short shot 2’ back and forth. 1 Wrist Flat. 2 Stance square or. 3 Behind armpit or low point. 4 8”or 16”. 5 Even or. 6 For me, No pivot at all. 6a I would think about 5 shots because it is just a basic thought for every swing. Most change their basic plan after two or three bad shots.

All your question are optional. A smooth continuous motion back and forth with no change for the ball is not.

I do this every day, often with out a club, sometimes before getting out of bed.

Before getting out of bed??? (hehe… Im a visual person so my mind is on overload currently Darty!!)

“6. For me No Pivot at all” This is interesting Darty, as I was discussing with Bio today how I had just found how powerful the hands and arms are and the body is just a stabliser/suppot to provide their platform to work off. Prior to today I had been spinning hard for power and never realised that it was such a wasted effort (for me anyway). The body itself hardly produces any power of its own accord.

Dart,

Thanks for your replies.

I do actually have the book but you can be forgiven for thinking otherwise. For some reason when ever I open it my head begins to hurt.

Styles,

I have already read everything in the Golf School but thanks anyway.

Royshh

I had exactly the same experience when I started to read TGM (I felt really stupid at times and was left saying “What the?”)

Now I like to compare the book to an onion…

The further you dig, the more layers you begin to find. And yes while just looking at it at times will make your eyes sting, when you finally add it to your recipe for golfing success and allow it the time in needs to bake (the incubation period), the end result makes you glad you persisted with it.

Stick with it mate, it will all click one day and you will be amazed with the new dimensions it adds to your game. Don’t be shy in asking many questions of the “brain’s trust” in regards to what you read, the clarity they add makes the learning that much easier.

AB

Before getting out of bed??? (hehe… Im a visual person so my mind is on overload currently Darty!!)

“6. For me No Pivot at all” This is interesting Darty, as I was discussing with Bio today how I had just found how powerful the hands and arms are and the body is just a stabliser/suppot to provide their platform to work off. Prior to today I had been spinning hard for power and never realised that it was such a wasted effort (for me anyway). The body itself hardly produces any power of its own accord.

Some dream, others DO!

fit2firegolf@yahoo.com.au">fit2firegolf@yahoo.com.au

AB,
Fantastic insight. I saw this guy last year hit the ball 270 yrds off his knees. He had arms like The Hulk. Now who’s going to tell me all the power “comes from the legs!”
The more stable the body is the greater the force it can exert against the ground to create the necessary forces to produce arm speed and leverage. Newtons 3rd law of motion. “For every force there must be an equal and opposite force”. Good shoes and spikes are a must for stability. You can’t fire a cannon out of a small boat etc etc.
As a pro in the UK, can’t believe how advanced you Aussies’ knowledge is compared to elsewhere in the world. Very impressed!

Off topic but…

...AlexS

You are so right. I consider myself so lucky to have found this site. 35 years old and based in Northern Ireland and had never even heard of TGM until I found this site. It is amazing to me the lack of knowledge amongst PGA trained UK pros. Not only does there seem to be an entrenched mindset but a complete unwillingness to investigate and embrace other lines of thought.

Where in the UK are you? You might be interested to know that Guru is coming to Belfast in October. Let me know if you would be interested in coming over and doing some work with him.

Styles,

You’re right, this web site is exactly what can be so powerful and amazing about the internet. The shared ideas and wisdom of people thirsty for more knowledge. I see myself as a giant sponge trying to soak up as much knowledge as possible. The training for PGA Pro’s in the UK is not bad, but I would say 95% of pro’s I’ve come accross are either lazy – can’t be bothered to learn more – or they let their ego’s get in the way thinking that they know it all. I wake up every morning acutely aware of how little I know.

Hey a trip to Belfast in October sounds great. What are the chances that we could get a round on one of the top links courses. I love links golf.

I’m based at Slinfold Park G&CC in West Sussex, about 30 minutes from Gatwick Airport. www.slinfoldpark.co.uk.
When are you going to be off scratch then? Is this the year?

Its all in the other thread :-)

The plan is to play at least one of either Portrush or RCD. Drop me an email to andrewnorrby@hotmail.com and I’ll give you more info.

With regards my comment about PGA pros, I agree their training is not bad, but its as if they get qualified and they think that the learning is done. I have met some young ambitious and thirsty guys who have the potential to go far.

I just think a lot of them are short-sighted. They really don’t realise that if they go out and learn everything, ten years from now they will be able to charge 3 or 4 times as much as their peers who see their careers as getting a job in a shop or driving range and selling mars bars.

AB,
Fantastic insight. I saw this guy last year hit the ball 270 yrds off his knees. He had arms like The Hulk. Now who’s going to tell me all the power “comes from the legs!”
The more stable the body is the greater the force it can exert against the ground to create the necessary forces to produce arm speed and leverage. Newtons 3rd law of motion. “For every force there must be an equal and opposite force”. Good shoes and spikes are a must for stability. You can’t fire a cannon out of a small boat etc etc.
As a pro in the UK, can’t believe how advanced you Aussies’ knowledge is compared to elsewhere in the world. Very impressed!

“Good swing technique is not something that has originated from the human mind. It is a result of the universal physical laws of force and motion that govern ALL MOVEMENT”. AlexS

Thanks AlexS, I appreciate the explanation as to the “why”. TGM has given me the tools to question why so each session is an experiment for 50%. I come home and write notes on the email notepad so I can chart progress and should I become stuck I have something to refer back to. The iseek brain’s trust empower me to bounce ideas such as this one that I might not otherwise be able to have clarified ever. I read everything they say, and like when reading HK, try to get to the essence and meaning of what their words are saying. Golf has become a lot more fun due to these guys.

Interesting you mention seeing a guy hit 270 yard drives off his knees…

Ben Witter Trick Shot artist and Long Driver hits 300+ doing this:

Feel it, execute it, live with it.

BR>As a pro in the UK, can’t believe how advanced you Aussies’ knowledge is compared to elsewhere in the world. Very impressed

Alex,

Now you know why we hate you Pommies, in case you didn’t :))

Dart,

Hey, my brother in law is from Melbourne, lives in London now. He makes me acutely aware of it every time I see him. He’s always going on about how much better you lot are at sport!! I had a few months of respite in 2003 (Rugby World Cup final), and then again 2005 Ashes series. Sorry, had to get those 2 in. Got to keep reminding you guys of that. We don’t win much you know. ;-)

So will England Win Euro 2008?

Oops my Bad.. They got knocked out in the ‘quallies’ didn’t they?

So will England Win Euro 2008?

Oops my Bad.. They got knocked out in the ‘quallies’ didn’t they?

“WOW! the Laws of Physics actually work!!” Dr Karl Kruszelnicki, Sleek Geeks, ABC TV, 3 January 2008.

ROFLMAO….

Dart,

Hey, my brother in law is from Melbourne, lives in London now. He makes me acutely aware of it every time I see him. He’s always going on about how much better you lot are at sport!! I had a few months of respite in 2003 (Rugby World Cup final), and then again 2005 Ashes series. Sorry, had to get those 2 in. Got to keep reminding you guys of that. We don’t win much you know. ;-)

“Good swing technique is not something that has originated from the human mind. It is a result of the universal physical laws of force and motion that govern ALL MOVEMENT”. AlexS

Alex,

Thanks for taking my “joke” the right way. I was regretful in hindsight.

Also The Blues were beaten 30 – Nil. And to think I gave up a night playing bridge to watch it.

Dart,

Hey, my brother in law is from Melbourne, lives in London now. He makes me acutely aware of it every time I see him. He’s always going on about how much better you lot are at sport!! I had a few months of respite in 2003 (Rugby World Cup final), and then again 2005 Ashes series. Sorry, had to get those 2 in. Got to keep reminding you guys of that. We don’t win much you know. ;-)

“Good swing technique is not something that has originated from the human mind. It is a result of the universal physical laws of force and motion that govern ALL MOVEMENT”. AlexS

Alex,

Thanks for taking my “joke” the right way. I was regretful in hindsight.

Also The Blues were beaten 30 – Nil. And to think I gave up a night playing bridge to watch it.

Hey Dart – I’ve been searching the TGM Book for instruction and skill training on playing Bridge – can’t find it mate – can you assist please!!

Take 3 copies of the book. Stand two up on 4 inches apart then use the 3rd copy to make the bridge.

How many Newtonian laws are at force? Bridge Building 101 :)

Right Forearm On Plane at work with a book:)

Styles,

Back to your last post…i agree that some guys finish their time and become “slack” or could not be bothered to keep on learning. Golf is for ever changing and being a good teacher of the game is kind of like being a medical doctor. Those guys have to keep on learning and updating even after doing it for 40 years of cutting up skin and organs.

I personally have not had much exposure on the ways/the structure of the PGA in Great Britain or how it goes about training pro’s there etc so commenting on it would be 75% guesswork on my part. As for aspiring golf pro’s in Asia, the USA and Australia, I’ve had much exposure over the years with the way they go about it and would have to say that Australia pumps out the better or more qualified “teachers” of the game. If a guy is an Aussie, qualified, and good, there are endless opportunities in Asia and the USA teaching as Aussies are in demand. Maybe it is the accent?

As for the ones stuck in a shop selling mars bars and being stubborn? I have a few great mates back in Australia that sell mars bars, they get out the vacuum for the floor of their shop but have knowledge to burn and do not charge the world for golf lessons. They enjoy making a living teaching and selling Mars Bars in Australia. Making $100.000 a year selling Mars Bars, teaching golf, selling the odd pie or pastie, doing a re-grip, selling clubs…well Bob is you Uncle as the saying goes. They never wanted to play on a tour when they finished their time some 15 years ago but should of as they flushed it back then and still flush it to this day. Each to their own I suppose. If they had of went to Asia or the USA teaching, they possibly would of made more but having buns in ovens and a partner can put a stop to things and then you factor in lifestyle.

But, I still agree on some points. There are PGA guys at certain clubs all over the place that are one directional. “I know it all types”... They are in Australia, Asia, USA, possibly Great Britain and all over the world for that fact. There are always bad eggs.

Back to the thread topic: “Basic Motion”..

I have seen/heard/witnessed some guys teach utter BS to their customer’s and shook my head over the years. For example: “You can fix your OTT cut by just gripping it stronger and closing your stance?” Nice piece of instruction there! There are lunatics out there!

Anyway, I hope you are getting to you goal of getting to scratch Styles and apart from keeping the driver on the straight and working it, spend more time on that short game as that is what makes the difference as I am sure you are aware of. Staying focused on the shot at hand is a good tip mate. Over the past few weeks, I have not played much or hit balls and became rusty with my chipping and pitching from say 50 in. A couple of practice sessions hitting balls with the various wedges and bunkers situations, well, solved that rusty feeling and I got my “confidence” with those shots once again. Golf is like riding a bike, you can hit your driver and irons and be cool but when that short game is not happening…misery and “I should of made that or done that”. BECOME a freak with your short game and that is the difference. It sounds basic but it is basic. When you have a chip shot around a green and feel you can hole it when over the ball, that is the feeling you are after. Play well.

Tai,

For what it is worth, I agree – to an extent. But, relying on getting up and down is only avoiding the real problem.

Hitting the green “in regulation” and then going for your birdie putt should be the prime objective – not saving par!

Hello Burner,

Hitting the green in regulation is what we all would like to do 100% of the time but it rarely happens, even for your best players. The really good touring professionals (most of them) or low markers can have an off day with missing greens but keep their score low by being a magician around the greens. If you are not a magician around the greens, you will not make much of a living. Like any player, I dislike missing a green in regulation when I am trying to hit it but it is a nice feeling to have that you have heaps on confidence and the different shots in your mind to use around a green.
One may miss a green for many reasons (a bad swing) and we all do it so what does one work on the most? You still work on your long game and approach shots but one should spend more time on the short game. Apart from improving ones swing and even if a person is a high handicapper, they will improve their score by practicing the short chips, bunker shots, putting etc. There really is not any other way Burner. It is all about experimenting with different clubs around the practice green to see what works the best for one’s game. I would suggest to people to try and not leave the practice green until you have holed a few chips.
In the end, you can put a great swing on the ball, hit it flush to the green but the ball happens to run off the back edge or whatever.

There are two things that don’t last long; dogs that chase cars and Pros that chip for pars. Lee Trevino.

Unless it is the US Open. :-)

Hello Burner,

Hitting the green in regulation is what we all would like to do 100% of the time but it rarely happens, even for your best players. The really good touring professionals (most of them) or low markers can have an off day with missing greens but keep their score low by being a magician around the greens. If you are not a magician around the greens, you will not make much of a living. Like any player, I dislike missing a green in regulation when I am trying to hit it but it is a nice feeling to have that you have heaps on confidence and the different shots in your mind to use around a green.
One may miss a green for many reasons (a bad swing) and we all do it so what does one work on the most? You still work on your long game and approach shots but one should spend more time on the short game. Apart from improving ones swing and even if a person is a high handicapper, they will improve their score by practicing the short chips, bunker shots, putting etc. There really is not any other way Burner. It is all about experimenting with different clubs around the practice green to see what works the best for one’s game. I would suggest to people to try and not leave the practice green until you have holed a few chips.
In the end, you can put a great swing on the ball, hit it flush to the green but the ball happens to run off the back edge or whatever.

You are kidding yourself if you think you can make it without hard-work.

Tai,

Don’t want to disagree and do appreciate what you are saying – BUT….................

In a forum such as this the focus of attention has to be for handicappers – i.e the vast majority of us – to get to the green in Regs’. If we had the long game that you and other Pros aspire to then we would quite rightly have a different focus.

A Pro saves pars and avoids bogies with his short game, whereas a handicapper would be better advised, IMHO, to get on the green in as few shots as possible.

Blow your par before you begin to putt, or have only one putt to save par, and you will always be a handicapper.

Thanks so much for the post Tai. I agree that the short game is where the gold is won or lost.

The best players in the world, the guys on the PGA tour average less than 70% (this year, the best is Allenby at 69.96% which translates to them hitting on average 12 to 14 greens per round. I consider anything over 50% GIR acceptable. If I’m chipping and putting well then I can shoot sub par. If I’m struggling to chip and putt then forget it – and the same goes for the pros.

Its much easier to get better at chipping and putting than it is to hit more greens.

The difference between 12 & 14 GIR is one has two more chances to make bogie’s and one two more chances to make birdies.

I played in the 12 zone all my playing life and had no chance against the 14s. The difference was only one shot per round for the first three rounds but I was exhausted and the difference could have been 8 shots. My 78 to their 70 in the last round.

Why 12 & 14 – their basic motion was twice as good as mine.

Simply back and forth smooth on plane day after bloody day, less practice and no effort.

Every one will benefit from this simple concept. A smooth circular motion back and up – down and out – up and in with no care for missing the ball.

Perfection of motion.

The ball will get in the way soon enough.