I’ve been checking out the teachings of Jim Hardy and Jeff Ritter who both advocate the one plane swing. ie. shoulders, arms and club all swing on the same plane. Seems simple and makes sense to me. I’m pretty sure my arms swing on a steeper plane than my shoulders currently so I’m going to try and make the switch. Anyone been here already? You can find Ritters instruction on Youtube.

Gibbo,

Don’t waste your time. The plan you have is good as long as it goes in the right direction.

Thousands of golfers screw themselves trying to fix the wrong thing and spoil what they have that is working well.

Gibbo70

If you believe that Jeff Ritter’s shoulders/arms/clubshaft are all swinging on one plane, then you have zero understanding of the golf swing.

The arms always swings on a steeper plane – even in the one plane swing. Jeff Ritters’ hands/clubshaft move from the hand plane to the turned shoulder plane in the backswing and back down to the elbow plane in the downswing, and he therefore has a double plane shift swing. The fact that his left arm/shoulder turn angle at the end-backswing is parallel to the hand plane is irrelevant. What’s important to understand is that his clubshaft has to shift planes and when it shifts planes, the butt end of the club always has to point at the ball-target line, which means that it cannot always be parallel to the hand plane during the plane shifts.

See – http://www.youtube.com/watc...

Jeff.

Not having a go at anyone here directly, but, why is there constant bashing of what one persons believes to be a correct golfing technique, or better, or worse, or crap, or a revelation in golf? I personally believe that there are too many people who think they have the secret when in actual fact, we all are still learning this game no matter who one is whether you are a pro, a an elite AM player, teacher, learner, mid level etc. No person will ever know everything about this game even if you think you do. That is a fact in my opinion.

Jim Hardy was named the 2007 US PGA teacher of ther year, So some folk somewhere think he has a bit of ability with helping others improve their game.

I don’t care if he is God. Changing things for no good reason still hurts people, especially when they are not important.

If he helped anyone it was not because of one plane swing alone..

The trick with teaching is to fix the right thing the first time at the rate the pupil can handle. I don’t think that is one plane swing, even though I have used it to great effect with a few additional quality moves.

There are three things you must do, not one.

I don’t care if he is God. Changing things for no good reason still hurts people, especially when they are not important.

If he helped anyone it was not because of one plane swing alone..

The trick with teaching is to fix the right thing the first time at the rate the pupil can handle. I don’t think that is one plane swing, even though I have used it to great effect with a few additional quality moves.

There are three things you must do, not one.

Who called him god?

And what pray tell, are the few additional quality moves one must do, as you say?

Dart will have been referring to the Imperatives. If you ain’t got them happening then it matters not how many planes you have swung upon.

Changing to a “one plane swing” or a ‘2 plane swing’ may just help some players get the imperatives to work as fall out of the process. Remember the Plane is the king pin of the golfing process. Now add FLW and clubface control that goes with it and lag and you are able to consistently cook with gas.

Hey KOC can you remember “Get connected its OK!” I am sure the cantonese version was pretty darn close.

hi guru,
could you please forward Paul Hart contact Details as i wish to organize some lessons Thanks

The most important aspect of the swing is to have solid contact with the ball at impact with the club head square… The ball should go straight but a straight shot is tough to replicate all the time. A good player will either hit it left/right…work it if you like. I would love to be able to hit the ball straight as all golfers would but it is impossible. Hitting a curve ball is golf. Being on/off plane, we all have that problem but it is what your hands do at impact in relation to the club face as well. You can swing it like a fish hook but at impact, everything comes back to the golfing world impact zone.

NickE: Drop me a line to golfguruATiseekgolfDOTcom and I will forward the note to The Dart for you:)

Thanks Jeffman, my choice of words could have been better. I get across the line at the top and tend to block or hook (common problem) so was thinking that the top of backswing position advocated by Ritter and Hardy may help stop this??

Thanks too Dart, I hear you loud and clear….if it aint broke, don’t fix it. I hit it pretty well but looking for more consistency and no more blocks (see above). I spose we all are.

You Dont Buy a Ferrari then pull out the engine and put a Comadores one in do you?

You Dont Buy a Ferrari then pull out the engine and put a Comadores one in do you?

Depends if at crucial moments in the race, the Ferrari steers right or hard left!! Maybe not replace the engine, but certainly try to fix the steering! You not a fan of the “One Plane Swing”?

Gibbo

Hardy’s OPS is a very effective way to swing if one is flexible enough to perform it correctly. However, it requires one to re-think one’s entire approach to the golf swing, and to swing within Hardy’s defined parameters for his OPS. If you are thinking of converting to the Hardy OPS simply to correct a cross-the-line clubshaft, then you would probably be better off dealing with the “issue” that is causing your problem eg. too inside takeaway, swinging off-plane in the backswing and cocking the right wrist (which should remain level and never upcock).

I used to be a big fan of rotary swings (including the Hardy OPS), but I have changed my thinking since studying the TGM. Rotary swingers believe in focusing their attention on rotating the torso and allowing the arms to remain passive. I now believe that it is better to learn how to move the arms/hands in an educated way, and that the pivoting torso should be conceived to primarily be a transport/support mechanism for the swinging arms.

Jeff.

Gibbo

Hardy’s OPS is a very effective way to swing if one is flexible enough to perform it correctly. However, it requires one to re-think one’s entire approach to the golf swing, and to swing within Hardy’s defined parameters for his OPS. If you are thinking of converting to the Hardy OPS simply to correct a cross-the-line clubshaft, then you would probably be better off dealing with the “issue” that is causing your problem eg. too inside takeaway, swinging off-plane in the backswing and cocking the right wrist (which should remain level and never upcock).

I used to be a big fan of rotary swings (including the Hardy OPS), but I have changed my thinking since studying the TGM. Rotary swingers believe in focusing their attention on rotating the torso and allowing the arms to remain passive. I now believe that it is better to learn how to move the arms/hands in an educated way, and that the pivoting torso should be conceived to primarily be a transport/support mechanism for the swinging arms.

Jeff.

Thanks again jeffman, I suspect you’ve nailed it when you say right wrist issues. I’ve seen my swing on video and I’m sure that is where the majority of the problem lies (incorrect left and right wrist positions). TGM sounds interesting, will look into it.

Out of interest, would you say Ernie Els is purely a rotary swinger?

Jeff, I have to ask what your read or saw that made you have such a radical shift in pivot vs hands thinking. It could be very important for others out there wondering about what can control what. It might not have been a single point either.

I have just watched Jim Hardy’s DVD ‘The Plane Truth for Golfers’ and he does not advocate either a one plane or two plane swing instead he lets you decide on what swing you work on depending on the differing qualities of your own swing. I have received lots of different tips on what I should or shouldn’t be doing and until I watched the DVD found that some of the tips weren’t right for me as they were for a two plane swing whereas I have a one plane swing. The DVD has helped me to understand what I should do and since then my game has improved greatly. I am not saying that Jim Hardy is the be all to end all but that by listening to some sound advice, golfers can improve their swing and better their game.

Welcome Forwardthinker. Seen in context good info is useful. Take the same bit of advice out of context and it can be more of a hinderance. What did you find feel into the former and latter for your swing? ie what tips did you find feel into the hinder trap?

Paul S

I used to use the Hardy OPS and like all rotary swing patterns (eg. Chuck Quinton’s rotary swing), rotary swing teachers concentrate all their instructional material on how turn the torso in space. Regarding the arms and hands, they simply state that they should be passive and they should be flung around the rotating torso, and they offer no guidance on “educated hands”. At a later stage in his OPS evolutionary thinking (after his first book), Hardy introduced his idea of the right forearm throw, but his description of this maneuver is weak and poorly expressed (very inchoate).

Regarding the Hardy 2PS, Hardy has very little advice to offer regarding the issue of “educated hands”. He only states that the left arm should be brought down to the right side in a karate chop-action while the pelvis shifts left-laterally, and that this left arm karate-chopping action should then be followed by a horizontal shoulder rotation, and that perfect timing is required to coordinate all these actions.

I much prefer Homer Kelley’s “educated hands” approach. It has radically changed my approach to a golf swing. I am still learning all the “educated hands” practice elements, so my present thoughts are preliminary. I decided to revamp my swing from the ground up, and I started with Homer Kelly’s basic curriculum (chipping and short pitches) and then went on to an acquired curriculum (90 degree left arm/clubshaft angle and longer backstroke).

What I have concentrated on in my self-teaching manner are the following elements.

1) Loading the power package during the backstroke and then fully unloading the power package to a condition where all the power accumulators are fully released – both arms straight condition (while maintaining a bent right wrist).

2) Directing the power accumulator release thrust downwards and outwards to counteract the centripetal forces at play – pulling of the left shoulder up and away at impact, and execessive left arm retraction at impact due to insufficient extensor action.

3) Ensuring that the clubhead moves down and outwards through impact (aiming at the inner quadrant of the ball) and relying on the hook-face offset alignment of the clubface to direct the ball straight while deliberately avoiding any steering actions (eg. trying to hit the back of the ball with a square clubface via hand manipulations).

4) Understanding that the right wrist should never upcock in the backswing, and that it should only bend backwards – to keep the club shaft on plane.

5) Using the right forearm to direct an on-plane takeaway, and also using the right forearm (via PP#3) to trace a straight plane line in the downswing. Getting a distinct “feeling” of having the right forearm being directly behind the shaft at impact.

6) I am still trying to learn how to perform hinging actions controllably, but I think that good hinge action control is important to controlling the ball fight pattern.

7) Realizing that one should learn to move the hands in space, rather than thinking of movements of the clubhead.

Jeff.

You have yourself a great path to improving your understanding and later precision happening there. Keep up the searching.