For a swinger what is it that powers the swing? Rotation of the hips? Rotation of the shoulders down on the turned shoulder plane? Does a swing start from the ground up, or does it involve only the upper body with the pivot just a platform to store power? Do the arms play any role at all in a swing? Are the arms just being pulled along by the rotation of the shoulders?

TIA for any thoughts :)

I thought you would be the one to go into the 4 Power Accumulators . . .

TGM cover this quite nicely.

Accumulators and the pivot.

If I had to pick one idea for power out of the 9 that spring to mind, I would go with the arms over the body.

A man with arms only will beat a man with legs only.

Rhythm beats all.

ph

For me it is primarily hips, then shoulders. I start my forward swing with the hip thrust/turn which brings the shoulder then arms around. So I am a ground up swinger. The arms in my opinion do not power the swing. Power is transferred to the arms from the hip and shoulder turn. I have been to an instructor who said the legs or hips serve only as a base and are not needed to power the swing. His contention is that it is mostly a shoulder turn. He got on his knees and hit a ball to prove it. I just think it is one way to swing the club but not the only way. If you swing from the ground up you just don’t need to use the shoulders as much. But if you want to hit the ball mainly with your shoulders there is nothing wrong with it.

Well said Herb,

But what if you were talking to a group of beginning Ladies, Gents or Juniors. Would you tell them the same thing? What about a group of Tour Pros who dropped by to see what you had to say? What about a group of chronic slicers who thought they were swinging from the ground up for twenty years and slightly misinterpreted the start down movement?

Now reconsider the meaning of rhythm. It is a hard definition to get wrong no matter how badly you define or apply it. It is worthy of a life times study.

td

Now reconsider the meaning of rhythm. It is a hard definition to get wrong no matter how badly you define or apply it. It is worthy of a life times study.

Also, how is td related to ph?

The Dart is Paul Harts nickname.

It is a great exercise look up rhythm in the dictionary. It is so important to golf to have it. It is not Tempo. Look that up too:)

Well said Herb,

But what if you were talking to a group of beginning Ladies, Gents or Juniors. Would you tell them the same thing? What about a group of Tour Pros who dropped by to see what you had to say? What about a group of chronic slicers who thought they were swinging from the ground up for twenty years and slightly misinterpreted the start down movement?

td

Paul or anyone how would you interpret the following from Bobby Clampett in “Impact Zone”

“The number one key that sustains your lag, from the top of your full swing all the way through the impact zone, is a sound downswing pivot driven and led by the hips, with the shoulders, arms and finally, the club trailing throughout the motion” P92

This seems to me to support what Herb is saying.

“downswing pivot driven and led by the hips”

I have a major problem with the term “Driven”, no problems with “led”

The hips slide/bump for the elbow room be be able to drive the arms to the inside aft quadrant of the ball. So the hips lead, creating the second axis tilt which is the power look of good players. Some players set up with this look during their set up.

The right shoulder can then drive ala a flywheel the arms to the ball via the release of accumulators with rhythm vs jerky or off plane actions.

If the hips do not lead or rotate initially vs slide there is a better than even chance of the swing being sent off plane and all lag lost. If the hands move first then the lag is spend and the pivot becomes a pirouette or back foot cover drive.

If the hips do not lead or rotate initially vs slide there is a better than even chance of the swing being sent off plane and all lag lost. If the hands move first then the lag is spend and the pivot becomes a pirouette or back foot cover drive.

Ah … lag just what I have been working on. Paul hurry up and finish part 2. of your golf school article “Want Power? Discover Lag”. I’ve lagged my club head to the top and I need to know what to do next. You can’t just leave us there hanging in mid-air!

Part 2 coming to your store soon:) Been held up by all the mega changes. There are stores in the pipeline on putting too from PH and one from Lynn Blake.

The hips slide/bump for the elbow room be be able to drive the arms to the inside aft quadrant of the ball. So the hips lead, creating the second axis tilt which is the power look of good players. Some players set up with this look during their set up.

The right shoulder can then drive ala a flywheel the arms to the ball via the release of accumulators with rhythm vs jerky or off plane actions.

If the hips do not lead or rotate initially vs slide there is a better than even chance of the swing being sent off plane and all lag lost. If the hands move first then the lag is spend and the pivot becomes a pirouette or back foot cover drive.

I think I am having trouble with the initial hip bump. How does one manage to keep from sliding too far forward with this move? I think that in order to keep the club swinging on the correct plane one has to start rotating the hips long before the club gets to impact to keep from, like I have been doing, sending the club head too far down the line before the arms/shoulders start rotating to the left to square up the clubhead.

Herb,

You are very close. Don’t think how to bump. Think how and where to throw the left arm and club. The bump is a result of that calculation. If you don’t know where, you can slide for ever or turn for ever and get no where.

td

Novice,

If you are having trouble there it is probably because you have not got the idea of blasting your left arm off your chest to orbit to the FINISH with a Shoulder Throw. As usual you have multiple choice of when to throw it, I prefer early and from the ankles hips or shoulders. IP shoulders for shorter irons and ankles for long clubs on my good days. Like throwing rocks 10 yds or 50 yds. It is part of the basic power control programme. The young blokes these days fire everything from the ankles. I grew up on a hard and windy course. Some days we had to chip 4 irons to go 100 yds.

Hope that helps

ph

the power is in the hips.

the rotational torque generated between the shoulders and the feet.

It’s easy just watch the Video.

Golf Made Simple

the power is in the hips.

the rotational torque generated between the shoulders and the feet.

The only thing the golf club cares about is where the arms/hands go and how fast they go there.

Torque power is a myth. The only benefit of rotational tension is that if the top position is sound the body is in a state where it wants to do the thing you need to do next. Which is to get the hips out of the way of the arm swing. EVERYBODY swings the club with their arms.

Hips and legs are just the platform.

Torque power is a myth. The only benefit of rotational tension is that if the top position is sound the body is in a state where it wants to do the thing you need to do next. Which is to get the hips out of the way of the arm swing. EVERYBODY swings the club with their arms.

Hmmm … Packard so what in your opinion is the role of the shoulders? Doesn’t the rotation of the shoulders downplane pull the arms, which pull the hands, which pull the club? Not that I am any expert its just what I have read.

the power is in the hips.

the rotational torque generated between the shoulders and the feet.

The only thing the golf club cares about is where the arms/hands go and how fast they go there.

Torque power is a myth. The only benefit of rotational tension is that if the top position is sound the body is in a state where it wants to do the thing you need to do next. Which is to get the hips out of the way of the arm swing. EVERYBODY swings the club with their arms.

mmmmm may be true but i don’t get tired after playing for ages. my uncle gets really tired and he’s swinging real hard at every shot. i don’t, but i go further. maybe i’m younger too but it is also possible to swing the whole body at once instead of bringing the hips that little bit much earlier.

To say that arms are all that “power” the swing is wrong IMO. Yes, if you don’t swing your arms the ball won’t move but there is a definite relationship between wrists, arms, shoulders, hips and legs throughout the swing, if any of these key elements is lacking the ball looses distance, direction and control.

IMO balance powers the swing. Balance between all the key elements I mentioned before, it doesn’t matter how hard or soft you swing as long as there is balance throughout. So if you swing harder with the arms the other elements must increase by a equal proportion, but it’s just how I play the game and it works for me.

We are back to rhythm again:)

We are back to rhythm again:)

Guru,

You are right again with the rhythm thing. Do you think golfers are born without ears.

I suppose if you say it long enough we may start to look for ourselves. How many things can rhythm mean?

If we could all please get past rhythm. Then we could all get to breaking 80, 70 OR WHAT EVER. This kindergarten stuff is going on too long.

Grab a club. Close your eyes and swing that club. The nice feeling you get after 5 swings or so is rhythm because your hands have become more educated to the weight of the club. The next thing to learn is which way did it swing. The next is where did the clubface square up. And then, where was the low point. Put the ball behind that and you have a golf shot.

The good stuff is ball control. It is like flying model aeroplanes.

The most fun. Come on.

ph