Hi Guru,

I play off 22 and recently bought a new set of TM RAC OS2 irons, replacing the Precept forged cavity back blades I struggled with. I did however keep my 56° sand wedge from this set and my Vokey 60° lob wedge. My concern is that my pitching wedge is now only 45° (was 47° in my old clubs) and I hit it about 110 metres, about 40 metres further than my sand wedge. I struggled with this distance gap on the weekend with 70-80 metre approach shots and would like your advice and others on what I should do.

I play at Heidelberg and the bunkers tend to be firm. I mostly use my lob wedge out of these as it has 8° bounce compared to 14° with the sand wedge. The rest of my set is made up of 11.5° driver, 15° 3-wood, 19° TM Rescue3 and 4-iron to PW. I'm comfortable with not having a 5-wood and can put another club in my bag, so was thinking a 50° or 51° gap wedge. But is four wedges crazy for a guy playing off 22? We're also going to couch fairways over the next 3 years.

Thanks for any advice.

Ideally there should only be a 4 degree gap between lofts of each club and yet nearly all sets have 48 degree PW and a 56 SW. Its why Gap Wedges are a good thing to have in the bag.

I think the idea of a 22 handicapper having more wedges than long clubs is a great idea. Lets face it, long irons are harder to hit and we can get the ball still close to the green in 2 hits to use a wedge to its best advantage. As a higher handicapper you need more close in tools as the greens are not going to be made in reg as often.

I would bend your PW a little to 47 and then get a 52 gap wedge.

some pitching wedge are now at 46°
and I think the TA6's PW is @ 45°...

my pw is at 46, hence the 50 in the bag...also becoz a fair % of my 2nd shots on my home course leaves me in the 120-100yard range - which is too much for a 52/53...

4 wedges at 22 handicap is a great idea!!!

I got back into golf two years ago after a long break and when I was trying to break 90, having 4 wedges made a big difference. The gap wedge took a lot of pressure off short approaches and having a lob wedge meant not forcing short pitch shots, especially around the green. That said, you need as Guru suggested to look at the composition of the set. My PW is 47 and the 52 gap wedge gives 110 yards all day long on a nice comfortable swing.

What I found very interesting about getting a wedge set that worked for me was how much pressure it took off par 5s. The four par 5s on my course call for tight second shots and I used to get very stressed about them. Having more easy to use options in the wedges took a lot of pressure off those second shots, which naturally led to better scores and a better frame of mind.

How delofted are irons are getting . Soon PW will be 40°. Sorry guys but I hate the gradual lowering off lofts for marketing purposes. That's why there are so many gaps opening up in short irons. Hence the need for a "gap" wedge.

Recommendation: Have a 60°, 56°, 52° gap wedge and 48° pitching wedge. In your case get a bit more loft back on your pitching wedge.

If you need to leave out a club to fit in another wedge consider one of the long irons. You do a lot more scoring and have a lot more shots with the wedges inside 100m.

QUOTE: TheBlade @ Jul 5 2005, 10:12 PM

How delofted are irons are getting  . Soon PW will be 40°. Sorry guys but I hate the gradual lowering off lofts for marketing purposes. That's why there are so many gaps opening up in short irons. Hence the need for a "gap" wedge.

Recommendation: Have a 60°, 56°, 52° gap wedge and 48° pitching wedge. In your case get a bit more loft back on your pitching wedge.

If you need to leave out a club to fit in another wedge consider one of the long irons. You do a lot more scoring and have a lot more shots with the wedges inside 100m.

I carry a driver, a 4 wood (18 deg, which was a 3 wood in the day) a 3 hybrid and 4 iron down. Wedges are 48, 52, 56 & 60. I play off 2.

The gradual lowering of lofts is a crock and should be checked as soon as you purchase clubs. Any pro with a lie/loft machine can do this for you and adjust as needed, providing they are not some kinds of "cast" clubs.

So take your clubs to a professional and he can match up the set for you.

This delofting craze is just such a marketing pile of poop. "Longest hitting 5i in the market".. Well its coz is really a short 4i. This has been going on for a decade now and why the 2i is nearly extinct. Higher lofted longer irons need to make a come back otherwise the hybrids are here to stay for even good players!

i'd ditch the oem PW altogether and get a consitently lofted wedge set.

48, 52, 56, 60.

Provided your 9 iron isn't some crazy 40° loft or something.

Well I use 6 wedges.
The longest iron in my bag is the 21° 6 iron,
then I have my 25° 7 iron,
29° 8 iron,
33° 9 iron,
37° pitching wedge,
41° strong gap wedge,
45° weak gap wedge,
50° strong sand wedge,
55° weak sandwedge and
60° lob wedge.

And all this time I thought that I was hitting 1 club less than everyone else in my group because I was such a big hitter!

QUOTE: Veefore @ Jul 6 2005, 11:38 AM

Well I use 6 wedges.
The longest iron in my bag is the 21° 6 iron,
then I have my 25° 7 iron,
29° 8 iron,
33° 9 iron,
37° pitching wedge,
41° strong gap wedge,
45° weak gap wedge,
50° strong sand wedge,
55° weak sandwedge and
60° lob wedge.

And all this time I thought that I was hitting 1 club less than everyone else in my group because I was such a big hitter!

Love your work !!!

The lofts of my TM RAC OS2's are as follows:
3i -20 (same as my old set)
4i -23 (same as my old set)
5i -26 (was 27 in my old set)
6i -29 (was 31 in my old set)
7i -33 (was 35 in my old set)
8i -37 (was 39 in my old set)
9i -41 (was 43 in my old set)
PW -45 (was 47 in my old set)

If I ditch the standard 45° pitching edge for a 48° I've got a 9° gap to my 9 iron. Also not sure about suggestions to bend the pitching wedge as these clubs are cast. This would also add more bounce surely? Seems like a 50° or 51° wedge might be the go. Checked out the Cleveland wedge fitting system and it suggested a 51° gap wedge. I can get the TM RAC OS2 gap wedge at 50° also.

Get the matching iron. Man they are aggressive lofts!

wow, that set is almost a club flatter in lofts through the set! a lot of sets these days are 1 degree stronger (my miz mp30s are an example), but with that TM set, the 9i is basically an 8.

if you really like your PW, the then rac OS gap wedge would make sense. i like my current set up, but in an ideal world I wish mizuno made a gap wedge in the same head as the mp30. for the gap wedge system to work, you want to apply the same swing to your gap wedge as you do to your PW and 9i.

Those TM RAC's have very strong lofts. You should make do with: 45°, 50°, 55° and 60°.

Something I wouldn't be surprised seeing in the future is irons being named by their lofts. There will no longer be 4iron, 7iron etc. We will just say, "I used my 24degree" or 36degree etc.

QUOTE: TheBlade @ Jul 6 2005, 08:06 PM

Something I wouldn't be surprised seeing in the future is irons being named by their lofts. There will no longer be 4iron, 7iron etc. We will just say, "I used my 24degree" or 36degree etc.

i can see that. one of the guys I play with has swapped out his 3 & 4 iron and fairways for a set of hyrbids and he calls them by lofts not numbers.

If you want my honest opinion Anth, forget mucking around with your wedges. Think of investing in the range of easy-to-hit rescue clubs. The Hogan series (for example) has a 1# iron @ 17°, 2 iron @ 19°, 3 iron @ 21° & a 4 Iron @ 23°. These are easy-as to hit and would serve a 22 handicapper much better than fussing over a couple of degrees of wedge. Gap, Approach, Sandy... whatever.

What you need is a way to get closer to the green to start with. Then, stick with a pitching wedge for the short game and master that for the time being.

On your handicap you should be concentrating on getting a solid, repeating swing going. Something that enables you to hit the ball down the middle most of the time. Next, work on the short game. Getting good with the pitching wedge, and the 7 iron for running shots. Learn to putt without taking 3 putt greens.

Its no good having a long game if you cannot stop a ball on the green to score from. People want to learn their long game first but its almost impossible if you cannot maintain a good structure in your short swing.

I would work like buggery to understand the short game and how the wedges work in under 100 yards far more than I would work on getting clubs to fill the gaps at 200 yards if I were you. I'd far rather have gaps in my clubs at that distance than at 70 yards.

Get a decent swing grooved, easy to hit driver/3 woods and hybrids and just work at getting it close to the green.

Then practice, practice with 4 wedges in and around the green for at least 50% of your time.

I've come across different advice Pieter . I've never heard a low marker, pro or touring pro say to learn with the long clubs first. They always say to start around the green, develop feel, develop the ability to get the ball in the hole, develop the smaller swings learning to control them and then build it up. Getting solid contact with smaller swings has to be easier than solid contaat with larger swings.

Scoring starts at the hole. I'm running thoughts through my head from what past greats have said but I can only think of some high markers who have offered the long game first advice to me .

A lot of higher handicappers don't appreciate how many shots are saved inside 100m. As an example: why do most people have clubs that hit 190m, 180m, 170m, 160m, 150m, 140m, 130m, 120m and then have 2 clubs to hit every distance under 120m. The PW has to hit 110m, 100m, 90m then the SW has to hit 80m, 70m, 60m, 50m? (Of course this is just an example of some players personal distances, everybody varies).

In otherwords, why do so many people get so concerned with hitting the ball the right distance from 200m-120m, coverying every distance, where they have less chance of control both in distance and direction, then don't care about getting the right distance from 120m-50m where they have more chance of hitting the shot online and solid creating more scoring opportunities?

Let's say you're great with your 3wood, 3iron, 4iron. You can hit them solid. But you only have two wedges and you hardly practice with them and are sloppy with your distance control. How many times do you actually use the 3W, 3I and 4I each during a round? Then, from the good ones you hit, how many opportunities do you convert into 1putts?
Now, how many wedge shots do you have inside 100m during a round, including pitches and chips? Now how many opportunities can you create to have a 1putt?
Being sharper inside 100m is guaranteed to lower your scores quicker and on a more consistent basis.

The only deterent I can see to this notion is the longer shots "look prettier" therefore your game "looks better" and players practice for this reason. That can be pretty easy to get hooked up on when you forget about getting the ball in the hole.

A much more eloquent version of what I was trying to say

QUOTE: Pieter @ Jul 8 2005, 06:53 PM

If you want my honest opinion Anth, forget mucking around with your wedges. Think of investing in the range of easy-to-hit rescue clubs. The Hogan series (for example) has a 1# iron @ 17°, 2 iron @ 19°, 3 iron @ 21° & a 4 Iron @ 23°. These are easy-as to hit and would serve a 22 handicapper much better than fussing over a couple of degrees of wedge. Gap, Approach, Sandy... whatever.

What you need is a way to get closer to the green to start with. Then, stick with a pitching wedge for the short game and master that for the time being.

On your handicap you should be concentrating on getting a solid, repeating swing going. Something that enables you to hit the ball down the middle most of the time. Next, work on the short game. Getting good with the pitching wedge, and the 7 iron for running shots. Learn to putt without taking 3 putt greens.

This is utter bollocks and you Pieter of all people should know the importance of a short game.

The game is won from 100m in. We have juniors off 6 and 7 who are lucky to get their driver past 190m and their 4 iron goes about 155m, but watching them in the scoring zone is beautiful.

There is also a reason why it is called "the scoring zone" - wonder what that is...

My 2 cents

I think what everone is saying about short game is correct, yet I think what pieter is touching on is not without merit. In real terms the average golfer is not going to practice his/her short game nearly as much as they should and therefore is going to spend 90% of time practicing at the range, probably with thier driver. Now I'm not saying this is the right way to do things. In fact learning to master your short game is a locked in no brainer way of getting your scores down, but does this happen in the majority of cases. Probably not. So maybe getting some easy to hit hybrids that you are more comfortable with which will then allow you to get closer to the hole in less shots to scrounge your way to the hole in one or two less shots is the way to go?
Just thinking out loud
PS Virge, by the way, I look forward to your tutorial on wedges etc...as I know this will improve my game

QUOTE: TheBlade @ Jul 8 2005, 09:13 PM

Scoring starts at the hole. I'm running thoughts through my head from what past greats have said but I can only think of some high markers who have offered the long game first advice to me .

Now, how many wedge shots do you have inside 100m during a round, including pitches and chips? Now how many opportunities can you create to have a 1putt?
Being sharper inside 100m is guaranteed to lower your scores quicker and on a more consistent basis.

The only deterent I can see to this notion is the longer shots "look prettier" therefore your game "looks better" and players practice for this reason. That can be pretty easy to get hooked up on when you forget about getting the ball in the hole.

Blade . . . there are days when what you say is Poetry.

If I could add to our friend off 22. Grab a copy of Dave Pelz Short game bible, he advocates a clock system for the short game and FOUR wedges. It is a rather simple idea and plan that would take an afternoon to implement.

Being a 22 marker you may have trouble repeating the swing, but this is just another thing to work on... and enjoy.

BTW: Ignore the putting bible - modern thinking has relegated his straight back and through method to the scrapheap. Other parts on green reading are a good "read" though. (Actually a lot of the book is gold, just ignore the method of putting) <whew>

NOw back to the wedge problems. You have the RAC OS irons - a set aimed at the game improvement set. HUGE heads designed to get the ball in the air. Usually with graphite shafts. Strong lofts and large sweet spot mean that a monkey can hit them and hit them far.

May I suggest the following.

Keep the PW at 45 degrees. The newer OS clubs are only 1 degree weaker.
Keep your RAC OS SW and bend it to 49-50 degrees. Keep the bounce to avoid the dreaded chunk shot.
Get another Vokey Sand Wedge at 54 (eBay good), High bounce -14 degrees plus
Get your vokey bent to 58 degrees - this will bring the bounce down for tighter lies when needed. You still want about 10 degrees of bounce becasue of your handicap...

WHY !!

4 degrees difference in the set - nice distance control.
58 degree max on the LW because most high handicappers don't use the extra loft club properly anyway, and to be honest - it is only 2 degrees and the lob wedge can always be opened up to get more spin, it can't be hooded and do the same.
PW with low bounce, SW with high bounce, 2nd SW with high bounce and LW with low bounce should give a good shot selection for most golfers.
A choice of differing bounces for bunker play, high SW for soft sand and low bounce for packed sand.

For those who don't know - low bounce clubs dig into the ground, high bounce clubs dig less, or even "bounce" on the ground. The higher the bounce - the harder to hit in a "tight" or hard lie. A decending full shot though, negates this disadvantage.

I expect the two vokeys to be used around the green and the RAC OS to be used for approach shots and chip and runs around the green.

Hope I have helped or at least opened food for thought.

Enjoy.

Would you choose the bounce of your wedges by the style of fairways at your home club? As in tight lies, not much watering=less bounce and visa-versa?

if u start worrying abt bounce of the club, when you can't use the wedge properly, then your focus is on the wrong thing...

sometimes, just not knowing everything will do more good...