Danc, the natural action of our bodies when trying to weild something like a golf club is to have an out to in swing. For a straight shot, we need the club head travelling down the target line through impact and the club face square to the target line.

For the moment, let’s ignore the fact that all the angles are constantly changing. Just think of an average of what’s happening through impact.

Because the natural action results in out-to-in, we need to feel as though we are doing an in-to-out so that, in fact, we are about straight down the line.

We don’t want to be trying to direct things within the swing, so we want to try and ‘point’ our downswing (or swing plane) as a bit in-to-out. Keeping your right elbow (RH golfer) pointing down and tucked in toward your right hip should help.

Mentality is different to golf speak, Brownie. At least I think they are different. How’s your mentality/golf speak? :-)

The man who hits at the ball rather than through it has no sense of rhythm.
Secrets of the Master – The Best of Bobby Jones

Mentality? I have been known to go nuts….LOL

As a matter of interest,do ya wanna see me nuts…..Again LOL

Golf Speak

I dont wanna talk about it.

From the inside refers to the club head path surely, not the hands.

Well that was all very interesting everyone!
It is interesting to me that everyone, even the most experienced golfers and/or “technicians” struggle to explain why hitting from the inside is, for want of a better word, in fact “better”!
Doesn’t everyone wonder why golf is such a mystery, why it has become so technical and why it is the only sport that is in this state?
None of us ever have to think about any of this in the other sports we play – WHY?
While we are all arguing literally the “in and outs” (yes that is supposed to be ironic) of the golf swing doesn’t anyone wonder why? When I play baseball I don’t have any trouble transferring my weight to my left side, turning my shoulders, creating lag, keeping my head back etc…...why is it all so hard to achieve in golf?
WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE EVERYONE – that’s the real question we need to answer.
Cheers!

Hitting from inside (draw swing) allows for better compression of the ball. It allows the club face to wrap around the ball using the shaft as a fulcrum. The ball stays on the clubface fractionally longer thereby transferring more energy into the ball.

Out to in (slice swing) is a more glancing blow and the club face tends to open more through impact, less compression less distance.

For mine it doesn’t matter which way you do it (within reason) as long as you either;

do one consistently and accurately,

or

can do both accurately and at will : )

The difference is margin for error. To keep a drive in play or an approach shot on the green requires a high degree of consistent precision. Club path needs to be within 5 degrees either way, and club face needs to be similarly precise. At 125 kmh and faster.

Babe Ruth famously pointed to where he was aiming once in his career. A golfer tries to do that with every shot (albeit with a stationary ball)!

Well that was all very interesting everyone!
It is interesting to me that everyone, even the most experienced golfers and/or “technicians” struggle to explain why hitting from the inside is, for want of a better word, in fact “better”!
Doesn’t everyone wonder why golf is such a mystery, why it has become so technical and why it is the only sport that is in this state?
None of us ever have to think about any of this in the other sports we play – WHY?
While we are all arguing literally the “in and outs” (yes that is supposed to be ironic) of the golf swing doesn’t anyone wonder why? When I play baseball I don’t have any trouble transferring my weight to my left side, turning my shoulders, creating lag, keeping my head back etc……why is it all so hard to achieve in golf?
WHAT’S THE DIFFERENCE EVERYONE – that’s the real question we need to answer.
Cheers!

Practice swing divot is straight, actual swing divot is badly out to in

Danc,
Here’s an article to read of the comparison between golf swing and base ball hitters, with both sports they create the same power generation process from the ground up. This was based on research we did comparing US tour players swing sequence with a base ball hitters swing sequence in 3D.
Golf and Baseball comparison

Danc, you didn’t hear an explanation from the TGM guys.
There are no mysteries in the golf swing. There is complexity but Homer Kelley solved the complexity through enough detail and thus took the mystery out of it years ago.
Complexity is very much preferable to mystery.

The shaft (and attached hands, Weeties) is moving down the face of an inclined plane on which the ball has also been placed, up-plane or before the low-point of the arc which is under ground. The low point is a little bit out from the ball, and under ground.

This is all illustrated in the Golf School Articles “Fix Your Golf Swing – Parts 1 and 2”, the first articles at the bottom of the list. In fact, at the beginning of Part 2 there is a heading that says “The Out”.

Since the plane is inclined the path is inside out relative to the body as seen on the ground through the plane. The blur of the clubhead delivery line should be seen ideally moving into the impact area at about 12 degrees on average, in-out, depending on plane angle inclination and golfer’s height. There is a training aid that you lay on the ground and hit balls off with a 12 degree angle built in. I believe you get it from Chuck Evans (YouTube).
This is why we say aim at the aft-inner quadrant of the golf ball.

You don’t have to try to do this. Just take it down the plane angle. Down and out are simultaneous. The result is forward.
You never try to go Forward. You wll go OTT or flip the left wrist.
The out-to-in fault or OTT is a plane shift to a plane tthat is open to the target line. The body got in the way.

2Putts, I regret being the messenger to say that your physics is faulty.

And for working the ball study up on The “D” Plane in the videos on YouTube.

The hand path moves up and in from about opposite your right hip when compared to the ball target line, on a good swing. The club head will continue down and out.

Swinging out to right field set my swing back years. I took it at face value and swung my hands from inside to out through impact. This resulted in a very big inside to out club head path and pushes and hooks.

The reason that your hands – or to be more specific the point where your two hands meet on the handle – come in and up is because that is how we are designed to throw something down and out – we pull in the other direction. That’s the release.

Obviously if you look at the two hands the left hands starts below the right and then the right hand moves below, so there is an aspect where the hands continue to move down if you were observing from front on – the right hand passing the left and heading down. So you could think about the hands moving down maybe all the way to impact. Maybe.

If your hands moved in a nice circle which bottomed out around your belly button or left hip then down and out from a hand perspective would be right. But we actually begin pulling the hands up against the downward force of the club. The hands and club do not move on a nice single plane throughout the swing.

Unless you’re Iron Byron.

Nice Bix. The inside to out to inside swing path through impact is achieved by moving the centre of mass opposite or ahead of the ball position with the swing axis (centre of the upper chest/ shoulders) held back, before the shoulders unwind. The shifting of the COM laterally is what drops the hands and club in the downswing and the twisting hips is what untwists the shoulders causing the centrifugal force that unhinges the wrists. This move shifts the down/forward swing plane towards the target. Moving the swing plane forward is what makes it possible to hit from the inside, not swinging the hands from inside to out. The arms staying close to the body and the momentum swinging the hands down towards the knees on the smallest possible arc is key.

Nice Bix. The inside to out to inside swing path through impact is achieved by moving the centre of mass opposite or ahead of the ball position with the swing axis (centre of the upper chest/ shoulders) held back, before the shoulders unwind. The shifting of the COM laterally is what drops the hands and club in the downswing and the twisting hips is what untwists the shoulders causing the centrifugal force that unhinges the wrists. This move shifts the down/forward swing plane towards the target. Moving the swing plane forward is what makes it possible to hit from the inside, not swinging the hands from inside to out. The arms staying close to the body and the momentum swinging the hands down towards the knees on the smallest possible arc is key.

The man who hits at the ball rather than through it has no sense of rhythm.
Secrets of the Master – The Best of Bobby Jones

To add this, hence Razzar depending on where the ball position is, for a driver the COM doesn’t move in front of the ball. How ever the center of mass does press forward although at the point of impact the com stabilizes or stops moving, this has to happen to allow muscles to contract to accelerate the upper body. The com stabilizing also allows the upper body arms to rotate and accelerate around the axis of the spine.

The deceleration of the upper body and contraction of the muscles in the lats an arm contracting is what causes the arms to accelerate. When the arms decelerate is what causes the club to release(unhinge) and accelerate into impact. If the arms keep on accelerating the club can not release effectively. For the club to release correctly and accelerate into impact the arms must slow down.

Base ball the same applies same patterns and same chain of events. Baseball is on a vertical plane, golf in on a inclined plane no real difference.

In golf the club is just moving on an incline plane like Razaar explained the club moves down and forward also in to out.(Down, inside out, forward and back inside) How ever it’s due to the arms working around the axis of the spine on and incline plane or bent over position is why the club moves down, inside to out, forward and back side again.

Base ball is a vertical plane and move around the spine and forward. however depend on the pitch it can also move a very similar plane to the golf club is you are thrown a low ball.

The club dynamics to golf of how the clubs moves on a path and it’s magnitude and direction is not really not much difference to any rotational sport like base ball or tennis. The only difference is with golf we are bent over or on an incline plane apart from that the club dynamics is similar to any other rotational sport.

Sorry so what is the difference between golf and other sports then that makes everyone struggle so much with golf?
PRECISION?

Other sports are instinctive, reactionary and or spontaneous not so with golf. There is no such person as a natural golfer. The closest is probably a natural left hander who takes up the game right handed and vice versa. Consequently it is difficult to transfer skills across from other sports to golf. The golf swing is not a natural action. It is a feat to be able to hit the ball on the first couple of attempts.

It is a more difficult game to learn for people over the age of 20 than it is for somebody under 20. The experts agree than it is more difficult for us to learn new skills after we reach 20 because the way we move and perform actions is firmly established at that age.

We were talking about this same subject recently. I asked Jake Higginbottom what age he was when he first shot par or under. He was 12 yo. Cam did the same thing at 12 yo. Most of the kids in the Aust Team would be of the same ilk as would most of the top touring professionals.

Suddenly I have been transported in time back to a high school physics class, and still, I have no idea what anyone is talking about :-)

I was going to try an be funny with a same ol’ same ol’ comment. But then I remembered the Gailes groups…

So I’ll just go away now!

I haven’t done them yet, Weety. Do you wanna play in my group?

Sure – been an long time since we were grouped. Was in Red land Bay?

Sure – been an long time since we were groped. Was in Red land Bay?

Started 2012 on unofficial 17, achieved 12 – 2013 target single figures
Inaugural Official Handicapper and Treasurer of the SEQ Golf Guys

Hmmm.

2Putts, I regret being the messenger to say that your physics is faulty.

And for working the ball study up on The “D” Plane in the videos on YouTube.

“There is only one golf swing. It’s not a procedure. It’s simple geometry.” Homer Kelley,The Golfing Machine

LynnBlakeGolf

Loren I regret to inform you that your post doesn’t surprise me : )

I understand the D plane but thanks for the critique.

Sure – been an long time since we were groped. Was in Red land Bay?

Started 2012 on unofficial 17, achieved 12 – 2013 target single figures
Inaugural Official Handicapper and Treasurer of the SEQ Golf Guys

Hmmm.

The damn thing gone wild. that black Betty’s child Bennie

You’re being silly raz

We’ve been groped much more recently than that!

Bix, I didn’t need to know that, but thanks for the heads up.;)

Sorry so what is the difference between golf and other sports then that makes everyone struggle so much with golf?
PRECISION?

Practice swing divot is straight, actual swing divot is badly out to in

I’ll hazard a guess and bear in mind that I’m a hack playing off 19. And from the ghetto to boot.

All other racquet/bat sports are linear extensions of our arms.
The golf club has a bend in it at the hosel, varying degrees of loft for the club face.
In short the club face is always travelling on a different angle and plane to our usual racquet/bat sports.

That’s what I think the point of difference is and that is what makes it difficult to hit.

foster said
you all should take note from golf savvy and his gps and stop fken trying to get your golf swing perfect,perfect is for losers they are never happy,perfect actually stops people not only in golf but in life from attempting new things as they feel they will never achieve them.
so forget the golfing machine and forget ground forces,their all a joke.
like i said in another thread the only thing i found in the ground was worms and gravity