To get a different and propoer perspective on swing plane and point of impact on ball flight golfers should go onto You tube and look at clip called

strangest swings in all of golf.

Sorry not a techo so cannot give a link.

Good players on here
Lee Trevino
Ray floyd
Emmon Darcy.

go and look at these swings, none of which would meet modern coaching teaching standards and the discussion we are having here .

One cannot help feel that had these players been coached by some of the modern swing theory purist coaches with all this high tech monitors telling them about ball spin and D planes and ground forces etc that these players might still be of 18 hcaps.

Instead these good world class players have done what was suggested earlier and developed own feel of where and how to put the club head on the ball to give desired shot shape

After looking at this clip come back on here and tell me all about theoretical swing planes at 45 degree to face angle and and open or closed stances and how this influences ball flight.

I agree with your assumption there, Weety.

I had one today where I needed to fade a shot around a bend. I aimed a bit left and opened the face a little. When I played the shot, it started further left and came back to where I had aimed. Not what i wanted. It seems my subconscious compensated for my adjustment.

I probably fall into the ‘tinkerer’ category. I need to know why something is done or I seem to lack commitment to doing it. And if something is not working right, I want to know why, not just ‘the fix’. I need to know why the fix actually fixes the problem.

That’s not to say that I can translate technical knowledge into a physically better swing.

CB, as you know, most of the world class golfers learnt to play as kids by hitting thousands of balls. Once they learnt to hit them long and straight, they then played around with shaping shots. Their swings may have been technically imperfect, but they made them work with superb consistency.

For example, Moe Norman. Austistic, failed at school, shunned by other kids, spent all his time hitting golf balls. He became an absolute master at that.

I think some players from the past would have embraced technology (if it were available) and become better players due to a greater understanding of cause and effect.

Some would have beat balls and worked things out using that method.

Pretty much the same as today.

I agree with your assumption there, Weety.

I had one today where I needed to fade a shot around a bend. I aimed a bit left and opened the face a little. When I played the shot, it started further left and came back to where I had aimed. Not what i wanted. It seems my subconscious compensated for my adjustment.

I probably fall into the ‘tinkerer’ category. I need to know why something is done or I seem to lack commitment to doing it. And if something is not working right, I want to know why, not just ‘the fix’. I need to know why the fix actually fixes the problem.

That’s not to say that I can translate technical knowledge into a physically better swing.

OldBogey

GolfLink

OlindaGolfClub

Me too. It turns out I’m surprisingly good at following direction with a swing and it it a problem when you get instruction that is feel based or based on errors.

I did the set up where you want it to start and face where you want it to finish. And the ball would start where I wanted it to finish and then keep going away from that. I could override the compensations and it didn’t go well!

Similar with swinging to right field. I did that. And got very good at hitting big pushes! Feel over real isn’t a good swing building plan for me! :-)

What Hacky said on first or second page of this is good stuff. Its his thread afterall.

We’ll let him take the credit. It would be difficult to believe that I had started a topic in the “hottest” list.

I think some players from the past would have embraced technology (if it were available) and become better players due to a greater understanding of cause and effect.

Some would have beat balls and worked things out using that method.

Pretty much the same as today.

Nine out of ten people believe that out of ten people, one person will always disagree with the other nine!

+1 To right 2putts.

I can’t believe the wrong misconceptions people have about technology.

CB80,
FYI : Ray Floyd did embrace technology in late 80”s early 90’s he embraced in 3D, my boss tested him and we have data on him.
From the very late 80’s and beginning of the 90’s most of the big names embraced technology. Norman, Faldo,Price and Els and many others all did biomechanics and used technology to improve their golf.

With all these guys we never tried to change their swings just improve their movements patterns or kinetic link. How by FEELS, they did drills which made them duplicate the right coordination and better movement patterns we wanted to achieve. From doing these drills they developed “feelings” they could take these feelings to the practice fairway and integrate these feelings into their swing.
I have a guy who was on 17 handicap for 15 years, grind balls tried his heart out never improved. He did biomechanics for 2 years did drills to train his body how the move better. The feels he developed from his drills, he integrated these feels into his swing now he’s on 1 handicap.
There is a long list of these success stories, people been on a certain handicap for years then do biomechanics and improve out of sight.

Go tell these guys CB80 technology doesn’t help and see their reaction :)
.
Trackman is there to help people understand what their ball flights are. When they hit a slice, they know how that happened. They then know how to replicate it or hit a draw. It gives them understanding of how they do things.

What a great idea standing on the practice fairway for hours on end, grinding balls and slicing the hell out of the ball. Then stand there like an imbecile trying to figure out why the ball slices or why did that hook and wasting endless hours and may never improve.

Not sure about anyone else, life is too short to be wasting time on a practice fairway grinding thousands ball to try and figure out my ball flights laws. When I can get on a trackman within half an hour know how and why. Then I can utilise my time on the practice fairway knowing what is going on, if I slice i know why, hook I know why. I can then learn to control and replicate theses shots to take them onto the course. Oh yeah and develop feels I need to hit each shot.

With technology you can actually teach people how to develop feelings to swing the club better or shape the ball etc.

What Hacky said on first or second page of this is good stuff. Its his thread afterall.

We’ll let him take the credit. It would be difficult to believe that I had started a topic in the “hottest” list.

Regained most overrated golfer on ISG at Inaugural National ISG event, Gold Coast September 2012.

Self Annointed World Champion Forum Golf 4Ball Best Ball Team with Natnkyls – Still undefeated

I thought I had a bad attitude, then I joined ISG.

The forgotten hero!

I’m a bit shithouse, so bear with me, when you say “path being slightly outside” do i understand correctly that you mean it starts outside and heads to inside on impact, hence the standard left to right feature of my drive?

Straight pull left is my standard “draw”, you’re spot on.,

Kiwi, happy for you to get involved mate, I just figured I’d ask hackpro because in the “Golf instruction” column his are the only answers i can regularly understand. I didn’t graduate from NASA so don’t keep up with many of the other regulars in here.

Regained most overrated golfer on this forum title at Inaugural National ISG event, Gold Coast September 2012.

Self Annointed World Champion Forum Golf 4Ball Best Ball Team with Natnkyls – Still undefeated

Handicap – bad attitude, poor dress sense.

you got it mate….regarding the path

so when you close it up at the feet to attempt working the ball from right to left, all it does is then trap that outside path at impact, resulting in a straight pull left….

Sometimes if you fell trapped you will then compensate with the hands or lack of release, resulting in the high massive righty…..

it comes back to really knowing, feeling and understanding where and how the club feels in different positions on different paths. Only then can you make the link between thought, feel (mind and body), to produce and execute what you want to create with the shot in front of you.

The easiest way to begin to work on his association is to start practicing hitting balls at the range. First, start trying to hit the hardest cuts you can, you want to try and slice the ball as hard right as you can without necking it. Next, run the opposite you want to try hooking everything as hard as you can. Even duck hooking it. Say try 30 balls of each, NOT alternating, but in a row, so 30 hard cuts, then 30 hard hooks. Really work on using the clubhead PATH as your tool to create these drastic flights. You want to really feel the club way way outside the line on takeway and then explosive, but cutting across the back through impact. Be sure not to drop it to the inside at the top, say outside, the feel is a “spinning” feel, like you are trying to spin the ball across the back.

Then the other way, close it up a little (not too much, you will cramp/trap yourself again, leaving you nowhere to go). Now you want a hard inside to inside path, remember to commit to it and get your left side through and around, otherwise you will stall it and blow it right. The feeling here is a certain “flatness” to the club, like you are really dragging it behind and around the body. Correct hand action will get you the hard hook. Flip the hands and you will get the ducky. Do them both flip the hands, release the hands and “check” the hands. Note, feel and associate the result with all 3.

Now, go back and start hitting those hard cuts and slices again. Learn 2 things with the cut/fade. Firstly learn what result you get with purely the path outside as far as you can, then also start to learn delaying the hands (lag). The farther or longer you delay them the further right.

These drills will begin the process of what I like to call a “point of reference”. Once you can do it on demand, then alternate then, 1 hard cut, then one hard hook, then say 4 hard cuts, 2 hard hooks etc. Once you can produce sequences of say 30 balls on demand, then my friend you are 1/2 way there. You minds and body know knows the difference between the 2, it now knows what is required to produce the 2 opposites and now YOU have begun to “feel” how and where the club is and feels like to be in the positions needed…..

Once there, you then need to work in slowly to the meeting point in the middle. Which is a correct path, with the correct hand position at impact, square clubface which basically results in a straight shot/flight.

for a right hander, begin to work on the left to hight side first. get comfortable with it. Start to reduce the path from the outside, dont take it so drastically wide, swing it in from that line a bit. Note and associate the result. Then bring it in some more and keep coming. Really take mental and physical note of how it feels. Once you get to the straight flight, then work the other side, the inside, and start to tame it, not as flat and dragging, not as rotating and work it in the same way.

Once you have worked 1000’s of balls doing this. Then you will know exactly when and how it feels. You can hit those hooks and cuts blindfolded.

Now, here is where it gets tricky. Hands, hands, hands!!

The feeling here of “delay” is really hard to describe. Its known as lag,loading blah blah. The best way to describe it to a beginner would be to imagine that you body is always moving just infront of the club/hands. Another way would be to take your backswing stop and pause at the top, but the first movement is the body beginning the downswing thru impact and the club and shaft have not moved yet.

watch slow mo vids of players that have great lag, you will see them get not even to the top of the swing (club is still moving backwards to the top), but the body has passed this point and is already beginning to unwind into impact. This is how true great power is produced.

Knowing and feeling the clubs lag is 100% necessary in beginning the “timing” of the hands and how important they are in manufacturing shots. Reducing this hand delay at the last minute will allow the hands to “catch up” ever so slightly, rolling it a little (i call it), and delaying it farther will allow the face to remain a time bit open (bleeding the ball a little thru flight).

You can hit superb “tiny” draws and “baby” fades by simply being in touch with this hand timing aspect of your swing.

Combine the 2 elements and there will not be a shot or ball flight that you will not be able to hit on the golf course…..

actually DOING what you know you are supposed to everytime is the hard bit, its the bit that you will never always get right.

Ever seen a pro or good player call a NO, NOPE, THATS NOT IT etc basically before, at or millisecond after impact? why? because he/she knows what they needed to do, how they needed it to feel and they knew right at that point, that they failed to do what they knew they had to. Its all about the mind and body connection, it’s the only way.

If anyone has seen me on the range prior to a round I almost always end with 3 hard cuts and 3 duck hooks. It keeps it fresh, it keeps it real and it brings the whole spectrum of opposites right to the surface just before tee off.

Takes a lot of practice,time and energy, but you game will come leaps and bounds once you get it.

godd luck man, happy to help if your in melbourne mate

“I work with retards, Those goofy bastards are about the best thing I’ve got going.” – Pat Healy – “There’s Something About Mary”

Thank you, i really appreciate this explanation. I will be on prac fairway practicing 100s of cuts and hooks now to get the feel, what a clever solution to fixing swing path problems! Cheers

Saying that, let me say this. Good players train themselves to get the face back to a fairly square position through impact. The most likely scenario if you set up with, say, a wide open face – aimed at the final target – and with your body aligned along the line you want the ball to start, and then you make a normal swing, is that you will get to impact with the face closer to square than you set up. Because your brain has been trained that way a lot..

This will create a shot that starts almost on the line you wanted and shapes the way you wanted. So it will likely produce a good result. Especially, as I noted earlier, for shots off tees and fairways.

Started 2012 on unofficial 17, achieved 12 – 2013 target single figures
Inaugural Official Handicapper and Treasurer of the SEQ Golf Guys

that actually makes sense, and doing that works, trouble is don’t work on anything but a flat lie…..

and that is the hardest part of golf, most courses are not flat, and even throughout, so you need to adjust for nearly every shot not off the tee, so my query is, how do you know where to move your feet, for each different lie? I usually figure it out on the shot after the duff, or skull, and then forget 5 holes later and do it again, costs me 5-10 shots a game…....

What is the method for setting up correctly for on the various lies on a fairway?

Ball above your feet?
Below your feet?
Sideways to your target?

Thanks Hack for your prompt response….

I agree with your assumption there, Weety.

I had one today where I needed to fade a shot around a bend. I aimed a bit left and opened the face a little. When I played the shot, it started further left and came back to where I had aimed. Not what i wanted.

old bogey
unless you have been shown by a pro how to do it
then hit some in front of the pro & got feed back & make any adjustments reqd
then gone to the range and actually practiced it
DONT TRY IT IN COMP be cause you now have a belief that it doesnt work

you hit the right shape
alignments may have been wrong
maybe who knows
you need a coach to tell you

I find it funny that people expect that because you have the face pointing somewhere at address it will be there at impact. A lot can happen in a back swing.

I have a guy who was on 17 handicap for 15 years, grind balls tried his heart out never improved. He did biomechanics for 2 years did drills to train his body how the move better. The feels he developed from his drills, he integrated these feels into his swing now he’s on 1 handicap.
THERE IS A LONG LIST OF THESE SUCCESS STORIES, people been on a certain handicap for years then do biomechanics and improve out of sight.

Go tell these guys CB80 technology doesn’t help and see their reaction :)

OMG!! you mean there are more of these stories….
oh my lordy

I find it funny that people expect that because you have the face pointing somewhere at address it will be there at impact. A lot can happen in a back swing.

What is this golf game you talk of?

true stink
what i also find it quite amusing is people dispelling in theory what works for me.

Now stink has seen my draw and fade work,
last fri arvo was the latest game we had and i had a nice 80 shots.
he doesnt then sit me down and say
“now look here shorty, you know what you are doing doesn’t work”.....

I agree with your assumption there, Weety.

I had one today where I needed to fade a shot around a bend. I aimed a bit left and opened the face a little. When I played the shot, it started further left and came back to where I had aimed. Not what i wanted.

old bogey
unless you have been shown by a pro how to do it
then hit some in front of the pro & got feed back & make any adjustments reqd
then gone to the range and actually practiced it
DONT TRY IT IN COMP be cause you now have a belief that it doesnt work

you hit the right shape
your alignments where wrong

If i was to start smoking
i think they would be oh i don’t know..
Vanilla flavored i reckon

Interesting. I can, and do, do this when i need to hit a strong draw or a hook.
80 odd % of the time it is perfect. Even in my shithouse round yesterday.
But i cant do it for a deliberate fad/slice, even though a small cut/ fade is my stock shor

Hack,

How much wood would a woodchuck chuck
If a woodchuck could chuck wood?

Thanks in advance,

Orbs

What is the method for setting up correctly for on the various lies on a fairway?

Ball above your feet?
Below your feet?
Sideways to your target?

Thanks Hack for your prompt response….

http://www.golflink.com.au/...

mick
a very good question
i have just developed a feel for these type of shots
i cant tell you mate it’s some thing you need to try and see the result, from say 90m a ball say 3 inch’s above your feet may be right edge of green. most important is have a good miss.
you will find it hard with that delofting forward press you have

I agree with your assumption there, Weety.

I had one today where I needed to fade a shot around a bend. I aimed a bit left and opened the face a little. When I played the shot, it started further left and came back to where I had aimed. Not what i wanted.

old bogey
unless you have been shown by a pro how to do it
then hit some in front of the pro & got feed back & make any adjustments reqd
then gone to the range and actually practiced it
DONT TRY IT IN COMP be cause you now have a belief that it doesnt work

you hit the right shape
your alignments where wrong

If i was to start smoking
i think they would be oh i don’t know..
Vanilla flavored i reckon

Interesting. I can, and do, do this when i need to hit a strong draw or a hook.
80 odd % of the time it is perfect. Even in my shithouse round yesterday.
But i cant do it for a deliberate fad/slice, even though a small cut/ fade is my stock shor

2011 C Grade Champion Vic ISG Round #4 OOM Keysborough Golf Club
2012 B Grade Champion Paterson River ISG OOM Round #3
2012 ISG Matchplay Champion

http://www.golflink.com.au/...

Rob
G has told me with the fade it is VERY important to have a good finish and swing normal, so no steering mate or crushing

Hack,

How much wood would a woodchuck chuck
If a woodchuck could chuck wood?

Thanks in advance,

Orbs

NAGA-free in 013.

Smoldy. Yeah.

2 cubic metres
4 metres if wood chuck has done zenolink

That’s a lot of ground forces for a squirrel.

Dont deloft anymore, but thanks got those pearls champ…..

Dont deloft anymore, but thanks got those pearls champ…..

http://www.golflink.com.au/...

about time
only cabbage man calls me champ

Kiwi, blatantly obvious that my alignments at impact were not as I intended. But thanks for your input.

Agree with Stinks. Except if alignment is ‘out’ at setup, there is a strong chance that it won’t be right at impact.

That’s a lot of ground forces for a squirrel.

NAGA-free in 013.

Smoldy. Yeah.

you obviously haven gone through the who’s who of zeno link
he’s (chip) a monster
actually more like a bob cat