Well Scott, 12 months ago when I started, if you’d suggested that, I would have thought you were having me on. But after the results of the last 12 months I think it just might be achievable. I dropped my handicap by 5 in the 10 months from February when I started on Zenolink to December last year. Since the new year, my handicap has come down another shot, from 18 to 17. I asked Darty what he thought I should be aiming for this year. I originally thought 15, but then thought maybe I wasn’t being ambitious enough, and should be aiming to get it lower than that.

It’s funny, but when I was off 21 and 20, I thought I was actually hitting the ball better than my handicap and it would come down. Within 2 months of thinking this, it happened.

Now that it has dropped to 17 (my actual of 16.9 is the lowest I have ever been down to), I am looking at what the 14 and 15 markers do that is better than what I do. I think their approach shots into the green are better. Their putting may be slightly better, but not by much. So I guess that’s two areas that I can work on to improve.

Greeneye,
I’ll see if I can find an interesting article on Tiger woods for you. They found where Tiger reduces his scores and lead to many of his victories was on the Par 5’s interesting enough it wasn’t because he hit them in 2. They found he always positioned his third shot to be about 100 yards to 110 yards out. He would then knock them to 6ft range. Which is impressive tour average is 20ft.

Tiger works hard on his 100 yard range is what this tells us.

Maybe you could focus on working on making more pars or even better a birdie or 2 on the par 5’s. You could focus on setting up your second shot to a full wedge or 3/4 wedge out.

For practice you could focus on your full wedges and 3/4 wedges and learn to become deadly with these shots.

When you play for your second shot work out your distance from the pin say 250 this means for your second you could hit a high 6iron (150 metres) into position to be a 100 out or a 5 iron to be 90 out.

Get your stats up with your putts under 3 to 5ft you can save a couple shots. Work on your 20 metres pitches to within 5 ft could save a few more.

Par all par 5’s, 4 shots saved on putting and pitching there is an 8 shot improvement around. Too easy lol :)

As technology is advancing and now becoming cheaper coaches around the world are starting to invest in 3D technology or biomechanics.
Coaches in the US are now starting to invest in force plates and now trying to understand what this data means.
This video was created for US coaches to explain the science behind ground forces and the importance ground reaction forces play in the golf swing.
Ground Reaction Forces

Outstanding, IMO.

Many thanks

Devon,
Ben Hogan had it right the secret was in the dirty. :)
So did homer 6-m-1 feet. hips. shoulders, arms and club.
Hitting or swinging same patterns required :)

Zen,

I find this a very interesting topic, but very difficult to do anything about.

Today, for example, inspired by the video you posted, I went off to have an experiment.

I can feel the force between my feet and the ground, that is fine.

I can improve my balance and set-up by having a bit of a wiggle, sensing that both feet are planted and that I can rotate and apply torque with balance.

But, if I think about anything to do with the pivot, that’s it, the swing is ruined. I pivot and leave the club and arms behind. Or, I lose my timing. Using Pete’s terminology, I am “chasing my left shoulder”, and everything is a big rush. HK would, I think, call this getting into Pivot Controlled Hands.

Coming at this from the other direction, if I set up with a balanced posture, have a wiggle, and then resolutely swing in a HCP manner, with no thought for the pivot at all, then I can play. But, I then have no idea what sort of pivot I just made.

I imagine that this is where your Zenolink systems come in. As you know, I have not been to see Alex yet, so have no idea what we will get up to, but based on today’s experience, it seems to me that whatever you do with Zenolink, it needs to be a way of improving sequencing off line with exercises (or something) and not anything that might be called a swing thought, because I, at least, can’t play if I think about my pivot.

Also, since you mentioned it, I am sceptical that hitting and swinging need the same pattern. It seems to me that they ought to be different. Are you positive about this? If so, can you help me understand why, because for me, in Hitting, I feel like I want everything moving “behind” the club (in a sequencing sense), adding to the Push, whereas, for Swinging, I would want to stretch my hips forward into a position where they can pull everything else through.

Devon,

Before Zen answers, if you try it with 12-5-2, like hitting shot while sitting on a chair, ground force reaction might make more sense.

The only difference between hitting and swinging is sequential release and simultaneous. What drives the shoulders is the same force.

You should not practice and play. It is an abuse of you best asset Chap14. The computer.

Dart,

thanks for chipping in.

My Computer was certainly feeling abused when I finished yesterday!

Some things seem to move from a couple of dozen shots on the practice ground and then out onto the course really nicely. By that I don’t mean instant perfection, I mean the good ones get a bit better and I can feel, on the bad ones, roughly what went wrong. Over the course of more practice / playing, the change beds in.

This process has been working for me for quite a while. Grip changes, setting up at IF, right elbow position, extensor action, FLW, Flying wedges, right forearm more in line with the shaft, right wrist level, starting down slowly with the arms before turning the upper body…. there have been quite a few.

But yesterday’s effort with ground forces makes me realise that this has never been the case with anything to do with the pivot.

One of HK’s best notions, for me, is the idea of HCP. Actually, I think of the right forearm in combination with the hands.

Prior to looking at Zen’s video yesterday, my plan has been to get as much done as I can simply using HCP, leaving the pivot to do its own thing. I would only work on Balance and Rhythm in relation to the pivot. Once I had that working as good as I could, I thought I would go and see Zen’s chum in the UK.

I think I got sucked back into working on the pivot because the video was such a good explanation of ground forces, I thought I had to go and experiment.

Back to the original plan, I think!

Devon

Youtube this – “The Move – Golf”

That video will explain in simple terms ground forces and the pivot.

Turn the right leg into the ground firming it up at address

Turn the upper body into the brace of the right leg that you have set up at address

Send the navel back to the target to reverse the action

Smash the heck out of the ball with everything you have at your disposal

Zenolink is the scientific version of this, the secret is in the dirt!

Shanks,
love it!

Someone will have to explain to me scientifically how the ground pushes back when it is a stable, stationary medium ?
One paragraph or less, please !
Jon…

golfguy33,

I can answer this one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wik...

It’s Newton’s 3rd Law. The wiki is very good. Plus the youtube that Zen posted some posts above this, in this thread, puts it into a golf context.

I get the whole idea. I think. Basically what I think the Zeno guys realised is that whatever you are doing in the swing translates into forces into the ground. If you can measure the forces into the ground, then you have a way in to measure the swing, and improve it.

If you look at the YouTube, you can start to think about two feet that can push in different amounts in different directions at different times. If you can get more force, applied by the correct foot, in the correct directions and in the correct sequence, then I think you hit the ball better.

The engineer in me says that this has to be right.

The golfer in me is wondering what to do and whether or not I have enough athletic ability to do this.

Thanks Devon golfer :)
Your are on the money there :) All basic physics, conservation of momentum, open closed chain, the ground is adding an external force to the system although it’s closed after that and momentum is created with in the system.
I’ll quick put a video together and explain a little further to your questions and explain different scenarios on how we look at training these ground force patterns and how we address certain break downs in ground forces and lower body mechanics.

I apologise I’m snowed under at present I have a Pro cycling team I’m working with, doing a bunch of testing on oval cranks vs a standard crank. Long story short although the oval they are saying remove dead spots that you get in a standard crank in the push,swing through and pull for the cycling stroke. Be really interesting to see if there is any difference in their push and pull, if there is any difference and whether this is beneficial or not.

Quick one a 4 barrel swing for hitting or swinging matches a kinetic link from the ground up. Same sequence. 6-m-1, 2-m-4,2-m-3.
There is also 3 stage kinetic link which meshes in with a 3 barrel swing. Upper body arms and club etc and so on for 2 etc.

Ground reaction forces are of not much use unless there is a dynamic connection between the pelvis and the shoulders from the start of the swing until well into the follow through. Ground reaction forces are useless unless they push, pull and lift against resistance.

The same applies between the shoulders and arms and arms and club but with no ground force you are swinging on thin ice.

raz, Dart,

hang on, can we go back to the previous 2 posts, please?

what is a “dynamic connection”? what’s the difference between a dynamic connection and any old regular connection? how do you make a connection “dynamic”?

I think there might be a key point in here somewhere
thanks

Im picking “resistance”............sorry if I butted in

OK, brownman, I see where you are coming from ;-)

what is resistance, what is the difference between resisting and not resisting (between pelvis and shoulders or anywhere else) and how do you create resistance?

Or dynamic connection. Either or both.

thanks

Devon
A dynamic connection is a connection between the hips and shoulders where the back muscles brace the shoulders with the hips. The bracing is diagonally from the right quadratus lumborum muscle to the muscles of the left shoulder blade and shoulder for a righty in the backswing. Without this connection the hips (pelvis) will move below the shoulders without a proper connection. When this occurs the swing will lose power and be less efficient than a swing performed by the torso and shoulders with the legs braced.

gawd, my grip it and rip it style is sooooo much easier

gawd, my grip it and rip it style is sooooo much easier

Muldude is a chopper ;-)

seems to work well for you too.

raz,

thanks for that. So, you brace the muscles in the back and that means that there is a tight coupling to the shoulders. That means that any hip rotation will pull the whole upper body round, rather than move loosely and independently?

When do you brace? I’m guessing that there is a sequence on the way back?

Also, is this related to something you said to me a while back, something along the lines that a proper swing “hurts”?

thanks

Devon
I wrote some words including this element in Hack’s thread “question to raz”. Any questions you may have probably should be in that thread, as a consideration to Zen.

Raz,
found it, thanks

Zen would looovvve to give you a definition of “dynamic connection”. He is just a bit flay out with bikes at the moment.