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The Over the Top Move
Forums → Ask Golf Guru - Golf Instruction | 212 posts
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THE OVER THE TOP MOVE The over the top move in my opinion is caused by 2 problems. The first and foremost is the faulty pivot. The second is the incorrect shoulder action on the downswing. The pivot must be fixed first and then the shoulder action can be sorted out second. I have made some videos for your perusal I welcome all comments. Enjoy.
Videos Part 1 is a quick description of what it is – you should see this kind of swing all over the range and golf course next time you are out and about. Part 2 is why we do it. What part of the brain says we should try and hit a golf ball like this? With this in mind – we should now be armed with the knowledge of why it is happening. Part 3 shows what a good swing is like, so you can practice the correct swing in the mirror. Part 4 is the role of the right shoulder; this is the move from the top that creates power. Part 5 is how the right shoulder creates power and why the over the top move will remove it. The leverage created by the right shoulder will create power, not the spinning of your hips, or upper body. The quality is not as I had intended, I had to reduce the size to fit in the thread. They are in DivX format, you can download the codec from www.divx.com How do I fix it . . . Some drills to fix your over the top swing. So you want to get the feeling of not swinging over the top. Set up your range mat like the following pictures next time you are at the range. Should take about 3 seconds to setup. The simple rule is to not hit either of the tees. Some things to keep in mind . . .
1. When the clubface initially contacts the ball (the point of
impact) the clubface is open
• Try having the clubface slightly open at
address.
Enjoy
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I find those to be FANTASTIC! Thank you! At the start of Part 5 - Power, you reference the angle between the RIGHT forearm and shaft, but draw the LEFT forearm and shaft angle. Love the statement "THAT's why the bastard hits it so far!" Once again, thank you.
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Sorry you are correct - it is the angle of the left forearm - but you HOLD this angle with your right forearm !!! Enjoy
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Very, very good. Some very good information in those five clips, i enjoyed them. I'll keep them on file for future references. Cheers Virge, i definately recommended you do some more clips on flipping or what ever takes your fancy, as you got the point across very clearly and i know they will help the other members, including myself. Cheers
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Excellent videos Virge, and the practice set-up is one I shall be
using. I second the request for an equivalent on flipping, then
with the combination of the correct pivot, stored power AND a
flat left wrist, it's "Luvverly jubbely" as Del Boy
would say
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Awesome stuff Virge, thanks on behalf of everyone for putting in
this much time and effort... hope to return the favour some day!
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Great videos Virge. Very informative.
Some of the things I would include: * What is a correct pivot? How do you do it? I think compda touched on it in the other thread, along the lines of "keeping the weight at the front of the heels, and feeling as though your bum is resting against a wall. Feel as though you keep it there throughout the swing" * How do you get the right shoulder to go downplane (ie. correct shoulder action)? This is where I believe the hands play an important role. In my view, its better to concentrate on what the hands are doing (If your hands are doing the correct thing, then the right shoulder has nowhere to go but downplane), rather than trying to force the right shoulder to go downplane. It would be good to get your views on this.
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I have some thoughts about part 5 generating power.
The power is stored by Pamps because he maintains his left wrist
cock all the way down until just prior to impact when he releases
it. I notice that at the top he does not have a flat left wrist.
To get the maximum wrist cock and therefore the most power it
seems that you have to loose the flat left wrist at the top of
the swing although he gets it back at impact. Do you agree with
what I am seeing here or do I have it wrong?
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Virge, Virge, Virge, Its THE BEST explaination on OTT move. You are the legend!
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Finally I can learn to be one of those bastards.
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Correct - but this is impossible to do unless you have a decent pivot AND your right shoudler goes down and continues down towards the ball.
Pamps has one of the flatest left wrist you will ever see. Have
another look. both at the top and also at impact.
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Virge, Liked your video above. Especially the reference to a STABLE BASE. To me the stable base is from the knees to the feet. This allows for whatever motion the player can generate to occur above the knees. I feel too many look at a stable base as from the waist to the feet which will limit any motion above. Lee
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Virge any chance of posting a big picture of Pamps at the top
with those cool green lines so I can see what you mean by flat at
the top? TIA.
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Thanks Virge, the vid and commentary are excellent…clear and concise, great stuff. And another vote for the flipping vid. thanks.
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Great stuff, Virge. During the lesson I had from a local pro here in Indonesia on the weekend he used a variation of your two tee swing path drill, which gives me renewed confidence that he knows what he's doing, even if the lesson was conducted in sign language.
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Virge, Could you please elaborate/define the motion of the right shoulder. I am happy from the front view that it moves down. What about from the "down the line" view. Does it move down and out? Here is my confusion: I assume that at the top of the backswing, correct shoulder position (viewed down the line - as if standing behind someone at the range))approximates being perpendicular to the spine angle at address. Should the shoulders unwind perpendicular to the spine? so the right shoulder would follow in the path of the left, or is the path of the right shoulder more steeply inclined ie more down than around. Viewing pro swings, it seems to me the shoulders at impact are steeper than perpendicular to the spine. I have more questions but this will do for now. Cheers,
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(oops...delete)
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Excellent videos and explanation, Virge. Although I still sit on the 'hands control pivot' side of the fence, I can definately see now where you are coming from. The right shoulder motions were particularly enlightening. Well done. Mick
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Thank you to the kind words, what you mean by still sitting on the hands control pivot side of the fence? I am also a big fan of the hands control pivot
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I mean that if the hands are educated to be in the correct position, this will result in a correct pivot. I felt that you were implying the reverse - that a correct pivot will cause proper hand action. It seems a bit of a chicken and egg thing. Mick
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I must not have explained myself correctly and I hope that no one else got the same idea. The pivot is just there are to allow your upper body to turn against your lower body, hence the phrase "pivot". You are pivoting the top half on the bottom half. All I would like to see our players do is simply pick the club are using extensior action and let their shoulders come round with this motion. What I don't want to see happen is that the legs add to this motion. The power in the golf swing comes by maintaining wrist cock on the downswing. It does not come I spinning the upper body as quickly as possible. Anyone who watches golf on television should be able to see this. Hands controlled pivot doesn't really mean at the hands are controlling the pivot, In fact I would say that the hands are causing the pivot. And instead of calling it pivot let's call it shoulder turn. So when you are practising on the range the aim of the game is to get the most shoulder turn, NOT the most turn. I hope this makes more sense.
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That is a pretty good assumption. When you look at a professional golfers swings you will notice that at impact their shoulders are by far steeper than most of the other people at the range. This is simply because of their right shoulder is going down further. And the lower they can get that right shoulder on the downswing the longer they can hold the wrist angle in the left wrist. As I said on the video, it the right shoulder stops, the right arm straightens. If the right arm straightens you lose the angle in the left wrist. And to reiterate, it is no point trying this if your pivot is swaying, tilting or sliding. So first things first, get your pivot solid, then work on that right shoulder moving down the plane. The question on whether the shoulders should move perpendicular to the spine depends on the player, his setup angles, and how upright or flat his backswing is. But normally I would say yes. Enjoy
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Virge...thanks for this video, very well explained. Helped to confirm an issue I was working on which is always nice. What software is that by the way? What did you do to get the student to lessen his leg action? Oh, and nice to see you sign off videos with enjoy too!
down and out…did ya get that? |