waffle delivers!

To that I would add a discussion of the player’s abilities, history, and desires. The original question is three-fold—beginner or swing/game upgrade.

I once had a player ask what I could do for him as a 12 handicap when he only allocated 30 minutes of warm up prior to 1 round per week. It was an interesting dilemma, and through the interview process we found a way to proceed. In 3 months he went to a 7.5.

Everyone is different, with different experiences and different abilities. It’s important to work through the process. While many pros and top players have spent hours upon hours hitting balls and committing to the game, it is the commitment level of the player that needs to be addressed and a program maximized.

An official iseekgolf.com teaching panelist Bob Duncan
PGA Teaching Professional
Tetherow Golf Club, Bend, Oregon
www.golfecoach.com

In my bag: Henry-Griffitts Golf Clubs

Dear golfsavvy,

You and brownman were also early birds to contribute to the flow of this Thread. This is really appreciated here.
Given that we are well into discussion on what Step Two should comprise, please let us know what would you include at the Step Two stage of building your own best swing or that of a fellow student of the game?

Look forward to your insights.

KInd regards,

Peter C

Thanks Peter,

2. The backswing.

Correct posture, stance, ball position relative to club used.
Correct takeaway with clubface rotation through to optimum backswing position. Special mentions to straight left arm, feet firmly planted and a clue for downswing trigger before sending him home to practice :)

the greatest game ever played
First Life Member of the Secret Squirrel Society.

Dear waffle_iron,

Thanks for a solid outline of what you would include at this next Step.
My question is “How do you define correct posture, stance?”

I am with you all the way here. Just need precise definitions so that I can duplicate the instruction.

Great outline of what is to follow.

KInd Regards,

Peter C

waffle delivers!

Every swing is an 8 iron swing!

Dear Wheatbix,

Thanks for validating waffle_iron.

Please add your thoughts on what Step Two might be for you to overhaul your game?

Kind regards,

Peter C

My question is “How do you define correct posture, stance?”

Given all the different body types, flexibility, age, ability etc. the Pro should teach the optimum address position to give the base for a solid swing.
Stance → width, feet splayed, knee flexion.
Posture → straight spine angle, correct reach, head position.

My question is “How do you define correct posture, stance?”

Given all the different body types, flexibility, age, ability etc. the Pro should teach the optimum address position to give the base for a solid swing.
Stance → width, feet splayed, knee flexion.
Posture → straight spine angle, correct reach, head position.

the greatest game ever played
First Life Member of the Secret Squirrel Society.

Dear waffle_iron,

Do you have a video demo of this for your students?

It would be great to see exactly what you are defining here.

Kind Regards,

Peter C

I will upload some videos in the Golf Talk section, called Barnesy and I for everyones viewing pleasure.

Peter,
I agree with those that recommend the importance of posture. I would go further and suggest that the reason for the correct posture should be explained. Your video on “The Wheel Concept” talks about the shoulders being at the hub of the wheel but what you don’t say is that the hub of any wheel is always on plane with the rim, i.e. the club head. To get the shoulders turning on plane, or parallel to it, you have to get the right spine angle. That is such a simple concept to get across.

Hi Peter,I do not post here very often anymore ,so my input will be minor….....
As was stated in one of your earlier posts,forgive me if Im not exact on wording,but hopefully you will understand,it is said that we (the pupils)are with your help building OUR swings,as far as this goes ,I will tell you of what it is “I” do in different parts of my swing as opposed to the “by the book” swing…..”that was a mouthful”lol….

Peter….....Thank you BTW for participating in this forum,you most definitly add CLASS to the “ASK” team…...BM

Hi Peter and everyone else –
I fear that this may get long so will break it up into several posts if needed. Before I start I will add that I am not a pro, teaching or playing or have ever undertaken the task of teaching a novice golfer.

Firstly – the hands controlling the body issue – please allow me to clarify Peter’s reasoning. Below is a photo from PC’s book (apologies PC if I should not have posted it and feel free to delete if you object). Just do the exercise in the individual steps as outlined. DONT think about moving the body – just move one hand at a time as shown:

Now – for those that actually stood up and did it you would have noticed the body needed to move to allow the hands to reach the intended positions – and BAMM – the hands are the source of motion.
When you then speed up and synchronise the whole thing it is the body that moves first but it is a result of trying to get the hands into position..

Before I get onto my opinion about step 2 – Peter can you please let me know what you think in relation to the concept about finding the correct “strength” of the Left hand grip position and the individuals natural joint alignment in the Video:.
LH Grip and joint allignment

Makes sense to me

So – Step Two:
depending on the level of the student we need to clarify what we are trying to achieve by holding the club the way we do.
Stand infront of the student and demonstrate by hitting a couple balls. Then get the student holding the club with the correct grip and hitting balls starting with chip/pitch shots and working up – DONT EXPLAIN ANYTHING – just get them used to swinging and making contact with the ball. If they actually watched you they would have a general idea of how to stand and swing the club.
Now that we have established that we can make contact we need to get into the basics of the swing – ie break down the swing into its parts – back-swing, transition, down-swing, impact and follow through and how these parts form a whole using what I call ‘Swing Glue”... ie rhythm, timing, balance, stability and motion – this is all at a high level – no complicated swing mechanics, no little technicalities – just instil the understanding that if the student applies the basics correctly they can play good golf for the rest of their life.

Once that light has been switched on – and trust me – it needs to be on if the student is to apply themselves, we can now start getting into the fundamentals of the swing starting with the concept of alignment, stance and ball position. (step 3 IMO)

Peter,
I agree with those that recommend the importance of posture. I would go further and suggest that the reason for the correct posture should be explained. Your video on “The Wheel Concept” talks about the shoulders being at the hub of the wheel but what you don’t say is that the hub of any wheel is always on plane with the rim, i.e. the club head. To get the shoulders turning on plane, or parallel to it, you have to get the right spine angle. That is such a simple concept to get across.

Dear Supinator,

Thank you for your contribution here. It is most appreciated.

The “Wheel Concept” is most simplistic and offers the idea on how the hands, hips, shoulders, and clubhead are linked together throughout the swing.

In the Croker Golf System we do not have the shoulders rotate on the same plane as the clubhead on the backswing.

We would never recommend that the spine angle be so acute to allow the shoulders to rotate on the same plane as the clubhead. This would place extreme pressure on the back.

In the backswing, from a balanced stance, the shoulder turn will be the effect of the hip rotation to start and the swinging clubhead to finish. In the process the shoulders will be turning as flat as possible.while maintaining the spine angle set up at address.

In the downswing the right shoulder will move in the same plane of action as the hands and clubhead. This puts the shoulder action in the downswing on a more upright plane than that of the hips.

The pecise mechanics of the body pivot can be found in the DVD – The Basic Fundamentals Defined _ Your Golf Swing for the Future
In the meantime please give us any further thoughts you have on “What would be included in Step Two” in building your own best swing

KInd regards,

Peter Croker

Before I get onto my opinion about step 2 – Peter can you please let me know what you think in relation to the concept about finding the correct “strength” of the Left hand grip position and the individuals natural joint alignment in the Video:.
LH Grip and joint allignment

Makes sense to me

All Blacks – world champions 2011.

Dear djcraig,

Thanks also for your quality posts here. The “lean back” check to see if your left hand grip is correctly aligned to the clubface in Perfect Connection Golf Swing” is a good one -

However to define exactly “How to place your left hand and then right hand on the club” we have covered this in “Step One – The Grip.” plus Checksheet

I thoroughly recommend that all golfers serious about playing this game for a lifetime take the necessary step to align their wrists correctly to both the clubshaft and clubface to minimise any strain on the hands, arms, and body while “swinging” the club.

Thanks again for making this point here, djcraig.

Kind regards,

Peter C

So – Step Two:
depending on the level of the student we need to clarify what we are trying to achieve by holding the club the way we do.
Stand infront of the student and demonstrate by hitting a couple balls. Then get the student holding the club with the correct grip and hitting balls starting with chip/pitch shots and working up – DONT EXPLAIN ANYTHING – just get them used to swinging and making contact with the ball. If they actually watched you they would have a general idea of how to stand and swing the club.
Now that we have established that we can make contact we need to get into the basics of the swing – ie break down the swing into its parts – back-swing, transition, down-swing, impact and follow through and how these parts form a whole using what I call ‘Swing Glue”… ie rhythm, timing, balance, stability and motion – this is all at a high level – no complicated swing mechanics, no little technicalities – just instil the understanding that if the student applies the basics correctly they can play good golf for the rest of their life.

Once that light has been switched on – and trust me – it needs to be on if the student is to apply themselves, we can now start getting into the fundamentals of the swing starting with the concept of alignment, stance and ball position. (step 3 IMO)

All Blacks – world champions 2011.

Dear djcraig,

This is super stuff and I agree that giving the student a visual of “How it looks and works” by the Instructor is a key point early in the “building process.”

I believe that is what “Expertgolfer” was referring to when he mentions “supplying CONCEPTS” at Step One. You have added more detail to that post at the top of Page 2.

Motivating the student to do the training necessary to build a correct grip and then what comes next needs a vision of the “Path to follow” and where it leads.

Seeing it all come together when the Instructor demonstrates competence builds this vision and motivation to do similar.

Thanks for your thoughts here. They are great!

Kind regards,

Peter C

First Lesson is to handle a students Concepts about how the ball gets up in the air and to establish at what point they are now and create a clear vision of where they want to end up with their overall game and also each skill.

Inch by Inch is a Cinch, Yard by Yard is too Hard
To make golf easy email me at yourpersonalgolfcoach@gmail...">yourpersonalgolfcoach@gmail…

Dear Expertgolfer,

You made a valued contribution to what Step One should include.

Please give us your thoughts on what comes at Step Two?

Kind Regards,

Peter C

Hi Peter,
Mutual clarity of the Definitions between the Coach and
student is paramount. This is worthy of repeated emphasis by the instructor. All the subsequent steps are for naught if the communication/ interpretation between the student and teacher of the definitions are different. When doubt and confusion reign, It’s usually
based on a scenario such as the following:( a) Video download recommendation- rgt ft on ground at impact.Path to Better Golf pg’s
49 &52 rgt ft is clearly off the ground at impact. ( b) the Stance
checklist item 1 & 7 seem to contradict each other.
Love the system and thank whoever for technology. The video downloads , due to your step by step approach, offers a stable
foundation upon which to learn the swing. Regards, Eva K

Dear evakovaks,

Thanks for your questions and realizations.

I will be interested in your feedback now that you have the LEVELS 1-3 Step by Step Program and will be able to compare this with all your past learnings as a PGA Instructor.

Thanks for being a Member and contributing to this Step by Step journey on “The Path to Better Golf.”

Kind regards,

Peter C

Over 200 views,surely there must be more opinions from all here at ISG………...needs to be rebooted

I guess everyone agrees that its the GRIP.

What does Mr. Croker think?
Lets here from the man himself…

An official iseekgolf.com teaching panelist

Golf Industry Central

Dear HeadPro,

At this stage it would be good to sumarize Step Two, but let us just have one last attempt to gain some insights from others who are viewing this Thread but may not have contributed their thoughts on what Step Two could include.

To offer an incentive and as a slight distraction I have a ticket to the Presidents Cup for Sunday as a prize. If you are not in Melbourne you could still win the prize and give it to a friend who might be in the area.
I think that knowing the important alignments in the golf swing is a valuable part of the building process and to know what these alignments are and then being able to assemble them effortlessly is a key to building your own best swing.

My question is: “Can you name and number the first 4 alignments needed in an orthodox golf swing?”

Please email me your answers to this question and you go in the draw to win either 1. A Sunday Ticket to The President’s Cup or 2. LEVEL ONE of the CGS Step by Step Program.

My email address is crokergolfsystem@gmail.com..

I look forward to your answers and I will post the Winner on Friday, November 18.

KInd regards,

Peter

PS: You will find the CGS answer on these alignments on the Media Page of www.crokergolfsystem.com

Iseekgolf website is a great resource for golfers and this is my first ever post here! Theoretically, if there exist a ””standard golf swing” which is tried and tested to achieve repetitive results in hitting the golf ball, then the step zero should be to find out where the student (beginner or pro) is in their golf swing with relation to the standard.

Since there is no “standard golf swing” as such, in this case the standard will be the PGA professional instructor’s golf swing. Realizations occurred when I saw my golf swing compared to a standard golf swing. However I think each case will be different as each one will be in a different level in comparison to the standard, some may need to learn the fundamentals as early as the grip.

Welcome to the forum moonmag, good post.

Iseekgolf website is a great resource for golfers and this is my first ever post here! Theoretically, if there exist a ””standard golf swing” which is tried and tested to achieve repetitive results in hitting the golf ball, then the step zero should be to find out where the student (beginner or pro) is in their golf swing with relation to the standard.

Since there is no “standard golf swing” as such, in this case the standard will be the PGA professional instructor’s golf swing. Realizations occurred when I saw my golf swing compared to a standard golf swing. However I think each case will be different as each one will be in a different level in comparison to the standard, some may need to learn the fundamentals as early as the grip.

Dear moonmag,

Good post here!

Having a Standard to compare with is one of the aims of this Thread and you are 100% right when you mention that there should be a “Step Zero”—that is to establish where the student is when starting the process of “Building their own best swing.”

On most occasions the golfer comes to the beginning of this process with Concepts and Beliefs on what are good basics for the swing.These beliefs and “fixed ideas” will block their way in seeing new and better ways and therefore they will find it hard to change their current swing patterns.

There are very few students that have completely no idea of what a golfer is or what a golf swing is, although it is a great place to start from when deciding to build “Your own best swing.”

Has anyone here been disappointed when they review their swing after attempting to change something in their current swing, only to see no or very little change. Besides not doing enough of an appropriate drill, or doing enough practice swings, or hitting enough shots, there might be a “wrong belief” stopping the progress.

Step Zero needs to flush out all these beliefs and then bring the student to the process with a willingness to do what is asked for by the coach in developing better “Fundamentals.”

Having a “Model Swing” is next and this is one of the aims of this Thread – to establish a “Standard” for the Basics of Golf and a sequence to their delivery.

A “Model Swing” needs to be seen and looked at from all directions. Let us use Adam Scott at this stage. He has a great swing and besides he is a Aussie. Jason Day might be a back-up or Michelle Wie.

Welcome to the Forum and I look forward to viewing your next Post.

Kind regards,

Peter C

PS: What are your thoughts on what should be included in “Step Two?”

The source of “wrong beliefs” for me is self diagnosed through watching youtube videos and other golf DVDs to what I thought was the standard golf swing. In this case if in tackling the standard golf swing such as Adam Scott, it should always be in consultation with a PGA professional instructor. I am not anti-youtube videos or golf DVDs because my instructor gives me videos to watch, but there are topics in the swing mechanics that I can clarify and help move forward in my learning (gets me unstuck). The instructor can also demonstrate with you the feel of each mechanics something which a video is limited to do and when I re-watch the video it gives me a better understanding and puts me away from the “wrong belief” (money well spent on lesson and I should have done it a long time ago).
From my golf learning experience since step 0, moving forward for me has been fixing the aim (ruler as a guide), grip, stance, small swing (chipping) and incorporate it into my learning of the full swing (irons). I can’t say whether they are in order though of step1, step2, etc.

The source of “wrong beliefs” for me is self diagnosed through watching youtube videos and other golf DVDs to what I thought was the standard golf swing. In this case if in tackling the standard golf swing such as Adam Scott, it should always be in consultation with a PGA professional instructor. I am not anti-youtube videos or golf DVDs because my instructor gives me videos to watch, but there are topics in the swing mechanics that I can clarify and help move forward in my learning (gets me unstuck). The instructor can also demonstrate with you the feel of each mechanics something which a video is limited to do and when I re-watch the video it gives me a better understanding and puts me away from the “wrong belief” (money well spent on lesson and I should have done it a long time ago).
From my golf learning experience since step 0, moving forward for me has been fixing the aim (ruler as a guide), grip, stance, small swing (chipping) and incorporate it into my learning of the full swing (irons). I can’t say whether they are in order though of step1, step2, etc.

Dear moonmag,

I agree with you that to have an instructor is most important if you want to improve on a consistent basis. “Hands on” Instruction can not be replaced by videos or books, however books and videos are great reference material for all students.

Thanks for your suggestions on what early steps you need to take once you have settled on a suitable swing style/model.

Kind Regards,

Peter C

Congratulations to Nicholas Hunton on winning the Sunday ticket to The President’s Cup at Royal Melbourne.

Here are the first 4 alignments needed in a golf swing

1. The Left Wrist to the Club Shaft.
2. The left Wrist to the clubface.
3. The Club Shaft to the body center of gravity.
4. The Elbows to the hips.

Cheers Nick

From the Thread:
To offer an incentive and as a slight distraction I have a ticket to the Presidents Cup for Sunday as a prize. If you are not in Melbourne you could still win the prize and give it to a friend who might be in the area.
I think that knowing the important alignments in the golf swing is a valuable part of the building process and to know what these alignments are and then being able to assemble them effortlessly is a key to building your own best swing.

My question is: “Can you name and number the first 4 alignments needed in an orthodox golf swing?”

Please email me your answers to this question and you go in the draw to win either 1. A Sunday Ticket to The President’s Cup or 2. LEVEL ONE of the CGS Step by Step Program.

My email address is

crokergolfsystem@gmail.com..

I look forward to your answers and I will post the Winner on Friday, November 18.

KInd regards,

Peter

PS: You will find the CGS answer on these alignments on the Media Page of www.crokergolfsystem.com

Congratulations Nick, have an amazing time.