The site for this years PGA Championship
http://www.pga.com/pgachamp...

Aesthetically it looks magnificant, very unlike most of the Pete Dye rubbish, especially given it is entirely artificial. Of course the photos don't show the architectural subtelties - maybe there are none, but at least it will be a good to look at for a change.

whallop

Golfclubatlas.com has a swag of photo's on this course. In parts it looks ok, however some of that wasteland style bunkering looks completely overdone to me, as the landscape appears pockmarked by little shitty bunkers everywhere.

Defintely worth a go after seeing the usual crap they dish up on the US Tour.

Jack

whallop,

Which do you think are Pete Dye's other better courses? With such a broad body of work, it seems hardly objective to label most of it as rubbish!

That said, I've been excited for over a year now about Whistling Straits.

Purely a subjective opinion. Not being familiar with his while portfolio, I am omly commenting on some of the higher profile stuff, and perhaps earlier work - places like Sawgrass that really get on my nerves. They all seemed very contrived and over the top. Whislting Straits might also be over the top but at least the aesthetics are more to my liking.

I take your point. But given that the Whistling Straits site is on Lake Michigan, and the Sawgrass site was a craphole that is often lauded as being among the world's finest courses on a terrible site, blame mother nature for the difference, not Pete Dye. Perhaps it is a compliment to him that when a site was horribly unfit for a decent golf course, Pete Dye was the archie trusted to come closest to crafting a silk purse from a sow's ear.

How contrived a course is can depend very highly on the site. If what is good ain't there, then the architect (whether he likes/wants it or not) has to put it there.

Accepted you've since stressed that it was purely a subjective opinion. And I too enjoyed some of the Pete Dye bashing comments of the late 80s. Hubert Green said that with his courses offering no bailout, thank heavens he doesn't build airports. And I like the one (can't remember who said it) about him using so many railroad sleepers. They looked at one such course and said it was the first time they'd ever seen a golf course that could burn to the ground. But these comments are in mirth. His overall work, both early (Harbour Town) and more recent is fairly widely accepted as high quality. And the contemporary rising master Tom Doak did a huge chunk of his learning under the man, and credits him with shaping his views and ideas immensely.

I played Whistling Straits on 3 occasions about 5 yrs ago when the course was still going through teething problems. They tried to fully authenticate the Irish feeling with varieties of grass that did not cope with the climate, black-faced sheep running around free and caddies direct from Ireland. The course is very dramatic in places and it is hard to believe that it was all a bulldozer and zero natural countours. As opposed to some courses, this one looks better in a picture than in reality. The par 3's are the most photographed and offer plenty of punishment for missing even for attempted bail-outs, which has been typical of the half dozen Dye courses that I've seen. I like the shaggy unkempt look and the course offers plenty of challenge. Can't wait to see the pro's take it on.

torontoroo,

Are the Par 3s all too similar? Is the eighteenth as bad as "they" say. How do you think it will go as a clasing hole in a major?

Jeffrey,
Each time I played the wind was a 20-30 kmh northerly so the 3rd and 17th played downwind and the 7th and 12th payed into it.
The 3rd is the most straightforward of the par 3's it was playing downwind/downhill so it played like 150-160yds but if you missed it left it was a 10 foot drop-off towards the water and unkempt long grass, bumps and hollows so an up-and-down is usually out of the question. If you play conservative and miss it right the mounds and rough are fierce with the green running away from you...so not much better.
The 7th...this is a WOW of a hole...from the back tees the green seems suspended over the lake, especially if the pin is not on the the front left. 215 yds and into the wind so it played like 240-260yds with water on right and high hill/mounds fescue and cabbage on the left. Most balls finish in the crap on the left where you have a billy-goat lie and making it to the green was difficult even for single figure golfers...great card-wrecker of a hole :oops:
The 12th...another WOW similar to 7th in that green sightline is suspended against the lake..huge steep gully short and right where you need Sherpa Tensing to help you get to your ball , so an up-and-down is not likely. You can see that missing it pin-high left in the "bail-out down go in the water right" is a friggin' disaster as well. 160yd shot played like 180yds into the prevailing wind, so again not easy unless you play a very short lay-up and play for a bogey :roll:
17th..by now you are almost dulled to the number of dramatic cliff side holes and then they throw in the most evil looking one.
This hole looks unplayable but because it was downwind the 225 yds played like 200yds and it wasn't too bad. But everywhere you look off this tee is deep bunkers steep drop-off to the lake on left and countless bunkers fescue and high protective mounds on the right. Pete Dye at his dramatic best.
Because of the nature of the first 17 holes where you are drained with the crescendo of the 17th, the 18th hole seems out of character and a bit of a disappointment. It heads away from the lake and looks different to the other 17 holes so it doesn't flow. But it has Pete Dye trademarks...disaster and death penalty aplenty. The tee shot is slightly uphill and to bite some of the dogleg off on a 490yd hole you have have to carry it 260-270yds and it was crosswind from the right. The second shot across a gully to a "mickey-mouse thru the clowns nose hit the windmill" type green butting up against a creek with steep drop-offs will cop its fair share of criticism I'm sure. But a player protecting a lead will have a fun job because there is no safe way to make a par 4 with the nature of the green and where they will tuck a Sunday pin in a major. I hope it is a close finish because it will be fun seeing the players deal with the difficulties of the finishing hole.

Sounds like it is going to be fun to watch. Lets hope the wind blows (and the course is set up for it to blow).

Whistling Straits is highly regarded by the USGA too. Just got awarded the 2007 US Senior Open. Pretty good accolade, because not many clubs get on rosters for both the PGA of America and the USGA.