Word on the street is that construction of the Tom Doak/Mike Clayton designed St Andrews Beach Gunnamatta course is to commence in December.

Hopefully, with one course under construction, the project will be more likely to receive the support which would enable the second course to be built.

Henry,

You obviously live in a different street to me. I've been hearing "words" about St Andrew's Beach starting for about 18 months. I'll believe it when it opens.

JJ

JJJ

Credit where credit is due. After everybody saying 'it will never happen - including TT who was supposed to have the 'inside word' - they get it going and now the line is ' I will believe it when it opens'
The next one is bound to be 'lets see how long it lasts before it closes'

Finally there will be something to show what an average a job others have done on the peninsula with great land - Bob Harrison excepted.
I'll bet it is the best and most successful course on the peninsula within a decade.

Mac,

I hope St Andrews Beach is built, the courses are both extraordinary and they make a lot of money out of it. Goodwill aside, as we have previously discussed I'm struggling to understand how all the new developments on the Peninsula are going to attract enough traffic, not just St Andrews Beach. You will have two courses at Moonah Links, at least two courses on the Medalist site next to the National and two courses at St Andrews Beach. Then throw in what's already there, two at Rosebud, Portsea, Sorrento, Flinders, 27 holes at the Dunes, two and a half courses at the National. That's a lot of golf courses, particularly in mid winter...

I have no doubt that Mr Doak and the local boy wonder, Mr Clayton, will build a pair of great golf courses, they both have the pedigree. I'm just curious as to who exactly is going to play all these new courses. Do you see a survival of the fittest? Will St Andrews Beach and Medalist cause enough pain to see other courses close?

JJ

JJJ
I'll believe the Medallist courses when I see it. Is there something you know that the rest of us don't? I would be very surprised to see that one get started within the next 5 years, especially now they have the project at Cranbourne. If St Andrews turns out as good as promised though, it will represent a major boost to the region as a tourism destination, and should boost overall visitor numbers. A build it and they will come type of scenario.

Do we know what the structure will be? Private? Public? Public to go private eventually if they ever sell the required memberships? If it starts out public it will really pressure fringe dwellers like Eagle Ridge and Moonah Links.

After everybody saying 'it will never happen - including TT who was supposed to have the 'inside word' - they get it going and now the line is ' I will believe it when it opens'
The next one is bound to be 'lets see how long it lasts before it closes'

Isn't that Barnbougle?

I hope StA lives up to the hype after all the wasted opportunities that have been built down there over the past few years, Bob Harrison included. If it doesn't I'm tipping a crucifixion.

out of curiousity, is there a model for this St Andrew's Beach around???
Just wondering why it's claimed to be that good, when it hasn't even started...
I assume a model of the course would be available for the public???

mau,
I understand St.AB to be a private club. The land they've secured for the project gives Doak/Clayton the opportunity to build a sensational golf course. However, as Jim said, given the number of "wasted opportunities" to build a great course in the past decade, nothing is guaranteed until the place is built.

Jim,

I have been told that the Medalist course(s) will begin construction in Feb. If this is a money game, which it is, then Medalist are pretty well placed to go it alone.

Is there a reason why St Andrews Beach will be any more successful than Moonah Links next door? You seem to think that the average punter knows the difference between a good track and a goat track. Go back to the thread on Moonah Links where TT was saying that the average punter loves Moonah Links. :roll: As long as the Open is played there it will get it's share of curious punters.

There are going to be a lot of courses down there and someone is going to get hurt. It also means that anyone entering an already competitive market is going to need deep pockets in order to get themselves established.

JJ

JJ
If the Mornington Peninsula is to become an international tourist destination, it needs some great courses. It has none at the moment, but the opportunity is there from both the Medallist and St Andrews developments. I hope they both get built and thrive. The year round population seems to be increasing sharply down there as well, which offers further support. The likelihood is that the courses that will get hurt are the ones I don't like anyhow, so I couldn't care less if they can't compete.

The attractiveness of Moonah Links to the average punter is somewhat more doubtful I would have thought. A typical response from average punters I've spoken to is that it is "no fun". I'm yet to meet a person would would rather play Moonah Links than The Dunes, whatever the price.

two and a half courses at the National.

When did they get an extra half a course?

mac,

I never said St Andrews will never happen.

I did say there was no chance of it getting underway this year or very early next year, and on that point I stand to eat my words big time shortly. It is terrific news.

Mau,
There is no model of the course (that I know of). Most people opinions are based on having toured the property. There have been posts in marking out tees, greens and driving length for the last year or two. Most peoples opinion of the course is from touring it with one or more of the architects involved. The course requires very little earth movement, it really is laid out there in front of you, and yes, it looks absolutely sensational. Of course, the architect could stuff up the bits of the course that aren't already there, ie the greens and bunkers, but with the choice of the architects involved the chance of this happening is about 0.74%

Everyone else,
I have only seen the property for an hour about 1 year ago. I still remeber the routing of every hole in detail. (Well, what the routing was at the time.) There are some courses that I have played and forgotten holes within a month. If I had a few hours spare on the penninsula tommorrow, there would only be 4 golf courses that I would rather play than St Andrews Beach (in its present state.). It is very exciting that the courses seem to be going ahead, can't wait to see how it turns out.

thanks for clearing tat up Jeffrey...

so there is a "potential" for a great course...but nothing confirmed!!! :wink:

Mau,
Tom Doak, the architect involved in St Andrews Beach (along with Mike Clayton) just does not build bad courses. At the risk of threadjacking, here are a couple of photos from a course he has designed in NZ which is just about to open. I reckon even you would appreciate these! :wink: More at www.capekidnappers.com

[img]http://www.kauricliffs.com/...[/img]

and
[img]http://www.kauricliffs.com/...[/img]

I think that site could have the potential to be the 9th wonder of the world. :roll:

Seriously though, a pretty awesome site !

G69,

Thanks for that, I just had to explain to a group of people on a conference call why I had burst out laughing.

JJ

great pics...
it looks the type of course where I'll prob enjoy the walk, but know for sure my score won't be as impressive as the views...

doesn't Tom like trees??? :wink:
has he done any work on tree-lined courses or is he the linksy type of guy?

I had to get in first JJJ. I knew if I hadn't typed it, you would have.

If Doakey does his own PR and marketing, he is a genius. Lets see, his last 3 sites have been Bandon, Kidnappers and St Andrews beach. Some pretty schmick land to work with there. Just once, i'd like to see him work on a shitbox swamp with acid sulphate soil problems, an ever encroaching residential line, and a stack of NSW council conditions.

Am I sounding jealous yet ? :wink:

Pretty hard not to like that! 8O

golfer69,
Doak's most recent courses was at Texas Tech University, built on a salt plain which was DEAD FLAT.

henry

Post some pics of it please.

Here is the finished product - I'm not going to spend hours looking for a photo of the original site:

[img]http://content-golf.live.ad...[/img]

[img]http://content-golf.live.ad...[/img]

henry

check in your c:/my documents/marketing material/doak_clayton/existing site photography... directory.:mrgreen:

G69,

Nice Hulk impersonation, it's hard to get that deep green thing going :-)

Henry is correct. The Rawls Course at Texas Tech was built on a dead flat paddock. Most of the reviews have been extremely positive except for Golf Digest in the US (from memory) where the reviewer seemed to want to compare the course with things Fazio had done and point out Fazio had done it first. Very weird review that was more having a go at Doak for past criticism of Fazio than talking about the course.

JJ

JJJ, It would be very strange if some of these course raters had ulterior motives.

Would anyone be so kind as to tell me exactly where the St Andrews location is.