You arrive at you ball in the fairway,no twigs or anything near the ball 1you dont ground your club,you take your swing,the ball moves in the middle of your swing…2..you ground your club,same thing occours ,ball moves during swing…What penalties apply to both ?
By the way,not hypothetical,has happened to me at some stage

If you do not ground the club, and the ball moves during your stroke, there’s no penalty provided there’s no way you caused the ball to move.
Wise action on a slope on a windy day.

If you ground the club, and the ball moves, there’s 1 stroke penalty. Rule 18-2b.

You arrive at you ball in the fairway,no twigs or anything near the ball 1you dont ground your club,you take your swing,the ball moves in the middle of your swing…2..you ground your club,same thing occours ,ball moves during swing…What penalties apply to both ?
By the way,not hypothetical,has happened to me at some stage

Did you actually hit the ball in either case?

If you do not ground the club, and the ball moves during your stroke, there’s no penalty provided there’s no way you caused the ball to move.
Wise action on a slope on a windy day.

If you ground the club, and the ball moves, there’s 1 stroke penalty. Rule 18-2b.

I would not agree with this.
If the ball is in the fairway (ok, TtG), there is no specification that the club touching the ground (or not) is the definition of addressing the ball. That relates specifically to the putting green.
In either case, the question was ‘ball moves during the swing’, and in both cases, there is no penalty as long as the stroke is taken.
However, if the ball is moving because you tapped it lightly with the club just before the take-away, that is another issue – that is ‘ball moved’ and it needs to be replaced with a 1 stroke penalty.

You could find your ball leaning back on a stick, so you address it with the club off the ground in order to hit the ball and not the stick. You’ve still addressed it.

peter

You’ve still addressed it.

No you haven’t. Addressing the ball requires taking your stance and grounding your club.

“Addressing the ball” is in the Definitions and is therefore independent of any specific Rule … putting green or no putting green.

oh man, strike out again.
Apologies for the disturbance folks.

peter

there is no specification that the club touching the ground (or not) is the definition of addressing the ball. That relates specifically to the putting green.
In either case, the question was ‘ball moves during the swing’, and in both cases, there is no penalty as long as the stroke is taken.

If the player addresses his ball, he incurs a 1 stoke penalty if the ball moves during the swing under Rule 18-2b – stroke taken or discontinued.