Just saw Mickelson’s caddy pull a red hazard marker out that was on Phil’s line to the green (his ball was right on the edge of a lateral water hazard).

I thought that was a no-no?

Was his ball in the Hazard?

If hazard stakes are indeed movable, they are movable obstructions under the Rules, and may removed anywhere on the course.
It would be most unusual if a tournament committee declared these stakes immovable under a Local Rule.

So hazard markers are movable by default?

What about OOB markers?

Muntz,

OOB markers are fixed – that is established in the definition of out of bounds. Pulling them out is a big no-no!!!

RulesDod,

Our course committee has declared WH, LWH & GUR stakes immovable. I can’t change their minds :( Hopefully by the time we reorder our scorecards???

Cheers
Trysil

Trysil,

Committees often declare such stakes immovable because members/players remove them to play their ball, and then do not replace them.
Anyway, if your ball lies outside a WH or GUR and a stake interferes with stance and/or stroke, the ball may be dropped without penalty.

Johanna

i would have thought that if your ball lies outside the hazard and the stake is removable you would have only one option and remove the stake and play the ball as it lies and not have the additional option of taking relief from the stake if your lie was not so great

i would have thought that if your ball lies outside the hazard and the stake is removable you would have only one option and remove the stake and play the ball as it lies and not have the additional option of taking relief from the stake if your lie was not so great

You do not have a choice here.

If there’s no Local Rule, and you can remove the stake, there’s no free relief from the stake.
If there’s a Local Rule declaring the stakes on the course immovable (except oob of course) there’s relief if there’s interference, otherwise you’ll have to deal with the stake as it stands.

If your ball is in the water hazard and there’s interference from a stake, and there’s a Local Rule declaring it immovable, no free relief, only relief with penalty under Rule 26-1.

A very unfair Local Rule IMO.
If a club makes this Local Rule they should use as many lines or flat markers as possible to avoid ruining the fair playing of the game.

Johanna – you said Committees often declare such stakes immovable because members/players remove them to play their ball, and then do not replace them.

;-) I know that, and you know I know….I’m on one of the committees, but doesn’t mean I agree with the course committee’s decision :)

Anyway, the LR doesn’t seem to hold much sway, judging from the number of stakes I find lying on the ground each week. I should carry a hammer to help put them back in, but I carry my bag, and I don’t want the extra weight :) (social round only here I’m talking about)

Anyway, if your ball lies outside a WH or GUR and a stake interferes with stance and/or stroke, the ball may be dropped without penalty.

It’s the IO status for the stakes that I don’t agree with when a player is inside the water hazard.

Cheers from sundrenched Norway.

Trysil

@Trysil -

The stakes on my course have always been movable, and they’re are always in place. It has never been discussed to change the status, because it has never been a problem. The stakes on two courses nearby are “immovable”, and very often all over the place… a silent protest maybe ;-)
Good luck with your mind-change-project.

Cheers from Denmark as well – 27 in the shadow today.

Trysil,

I don’t like a LR either declaring all stakes IO’s, but some clubs do it nevertheless.

In an ideal world we would have lines marking WH’s, but to maintain painted lines cost money in materials and labour, and with many clubs run on a shoestring budget for various reasons, lines will only be painted for special events.

Cheers too from sundrenched Holland, 27 degrees!

Johanna

Not wishing to be left out but greetings from chilly north England only 25.
But off to sunny St Tropez on Monday 28+

It’s grim oop Norf AAA.

We have the same local rule in place. It is unfortunate but until the members can be educated to put markers back when they remove them the local rule will stay
BTW nice & sunny here, min. 15 max, 28. great weather for golf.

seems to be a disagreement on the correct procedure if you are intrfered by a removable stake and no lr. rules doc says no relief and remove stake trysil and joannahc say you can have a free drop. sunny and hot here in thailand.

There’s no disagreement – rest assured that AAA would have pointed that out!
It’s just that the possibility for a Committee to make a Local Rule complicated a simple explanation.

No Local Rule on stakes:
If a water hazard stake is removable, you just remove it. It doesn’t matter if your ball is outside or inside the water hazard.
(and If you have a bad lie, you can not choose to take free relief from a stake instead.)

Local Rule declaring water hazard stakes immovable:
If your ball is outside the water hazard and you have interference from the stake, you get free relief.
If your ball is in the hazard, and the stake interferes with or stroke, no free relief, only option is to proceed under the water hazard Rule 26-1

(AAA – have a nice time in St.Tropez. I have a house just 40 km. straight north of St.T.)

Don,t know about the rules but I think that maybe we are using 2 different temperature tables on this thread:-)

Look like Celcius to me but some may be in Centigrade

Not sure if Rules Doc meant 27 or – 27 in the shade & would not have said 25 in northern England was chilly :-)

AAA, RulesDoc said it is -27 in the shade in Denmark. That’s very cold in C and F!

Sorry, the (-) was only meant as a “line of thought”,
It’s very warm today already (11 a.m.) 24 degrees Celcius and the whole of Denmark sunbathing. Most unusual for this time of year! (My lawn was frosty white last Sunday)
And now back to the early cleaning of the garden chairs.

What about stakes that hold GUR ropes? OK, I understand you get relief if it interferes with your swing or stance.

One was on the line of another players chip, so I went to pull it out and one of the older members waved me away. Are these movable obstructions too?

With no Local Rule declaring the GUR stakes immovable obstructions, the stakes and the ropes attached may be removed if they are in the line of play or otherwise disturbing you.

To stop the continued removal of hazard pegs, a past course committee had them cemented in. We have 240+ in our fields twice a week and the members just accept it ,with no complaints.

Well , thats another way to solve the problem.