One ball is putted into hole, second player putts his in also before first ball is removed therefore two balls are in the hole and neither is above lip. Is there a penalty to second player for putting out before first ball is removed?

Cheers, i couldnt find this in the rules and then conflicting advice re google so hoped you could clear it up.

I would think that if you can’t find it in the rules, it’s a fair indication that no rules have been contravened. By definition, both balls have been holed.
If Player A steps up on a par 3 and hits a hole in one, and then Player B does the same, I can’t imagine Player B being hit with a two stroke penalty can you?

No problem. No penalty.

The holes are deep enough for a heap of balls all to be below the surface.

19-5a is the Rule, only penalising if the hit ball is in play, which a holed ball is not.

Decision 19-5/1 is a similar situation.

Thanks guys.

Libba i can miss a rule easy as so im just making sure.

Cheers

Sorry Maggie, I hope you don’t think I was being condescending. That certainly wasn’t my intent, although upon re-reading my post I can see that it might have come across that way.

Pat on the back for speeding up play.

Not a Rules matter but connected to this ....has anyone seen or heard of a case where the second ball bounces off the first ball and comes to rest on the green?

Seen plenty of balls come back out of holes but never one that bounced off a ball already in cup. Saw one bounce of a badly set cup back at the player & hit him. That was a little ” Rude”

Ball hitting the player is really tough! Rubbing salt into the wound, eh?
Hole liners not fitted deep enough in the hole is too common. Off the top I can’t recall anything but a recommendation on this somewhere.
Saw and got a bad result from a shocker at Muriwai North Island NZ some years ago. The liner seemed like a cut down jam tin. It was set about 10 mm below the surface.
The course was good but condition at the time poor.

Bit difficult to justify badly set cups if a Cup setter is used though. Then it comes down purely to laziness.
Had one on the practice green on the weekend where the old hole plug was 5 mm lower than surrounding surface. That tells me that the hole it came out of was not cut deep enough.
But then I have seen balls strike the flagstick halfway up & fall in the hole.
What goes around comes around I guess!

Ball hitting the player is really tough! Rubbing salt into the wound, eh?
Hole liners not fitted deep enough in the hole is too common. Off the top I can’t recall anything but a recommendation on this somewhere.
Saw and got a bad result from a shocker at Muriwai North Island NZ some years ago. The liner seemed like a cut down jam tin. It was set about 10 mm below the surface.
The course was good but condition at the time poor.

Love playing the game and interested in the Rules

Languid,

The definition of “hole” gives the required depth for a hole liner. 1 inch (25.4mm) unless soil nature precludes this.

Trysil

Thanks for that, Trysil.
I was wondering about hole liners. Were they used back in the very early days?

Similar question….a player is not in comp and/or has had an out but their ball is on the green and another comp players ball hits it.

Is there a penalty for comp player whose ball struck the other or is the other ball considered “dead” in terms of the competition scoring and penalties incurred?

Can of worms comes into play if there isn’t a penalty.

Stroke play:
As long as a ball has not been taken out of play, there’s a penalty for hitting it after a stroke from the putting green.
It’s a penalty even if the ball is “out” for the hole.

Maggie
See Rule 19-5 and the definition of Ball in Play

Similar question….a player is not in comp and/or has had an out but their ball is on the green and another comp players ball hits it.

Is there a penalty for comp player whose ball struck the other or is the other ball considered “dead” in terms of the competition scoring and penalties incurred?

What a fascinating question x…x.

Let’s take the non-competition golfer first.

Rule 19-5 states: If a player’s ball in motion is deflected or stopped by a ‘ball in play…’

But what is a ‘ball in play’?

A ‘ball is in play as soon as a player…’

But what is a player?

There is no definition of a ‘player’. We do know that a ‘competitor is a player in a stroke play competition’ but we do not know whether any old ‘player’ is a competitor. In fact a ‘fellow-competitor’ is a person. Is a person different from a player? And are either of them competitors?

Are you still with me?

So we have a person who is (possibly) not a competitor, whose ball is on the green and deflects or stops your ball played (let’s assume) from on the green. Are you subject to a penalty?

I would not venture a ‘yes’ as there is nothing in the Rules which leads irrefutably to that conclusion.

My advice would be to refuse to accept a penalty until someone can demonstrate to you from the Rule Book, without fear of contradiction, that you have incurred one.

As to the situation where a ‘fellow-competitor person’ continues a hole when his handicap shots have been exhausted: I’ll pass on that until the above situation is clarified beyond reasonable doubt.

Just another SNAFU!

Are you wanting to add another definition to the Rules?
Do you want to include all words in a dictionary into the definitions?
Surely the definitions are there to clarify words that are specific to golf or may have a different meaning in general use..

Won’t the normal meaning do? ‘One who participates in a game or sport’.

So, a ‘player’ is playing the game. A competitor is simply a player in a stroke play competition.

It doesn’t matter whose ball it is – a competitor in the same competition, another competition, a player in match, a player just playing or a man walking his dog).

But the rule is concerned with the ball not the owner; specifically a ball in play.

The only issue is determing if the ball is owned by the man with the dog or if it is lost (as defined).

Interesting concept rog. I guess we r expected to adhere by the rules in both comps and social rounds so prob there could be a definition for both to clarify esp when players are together in a round.

My quest is, if player has had an out is the ball still in play or is it dead like when its holed?

Maggie, it’s in the definition. Did you not read it?

Of course i did, but it says until holed. Now what state is a ball in if its no longer able to score and has effectively been taken out of play….the definition does not include this state or have i missed something?

The ball is in play until it is holed.
If you cannot score with a ball pick it up. If you do not, the ball is still in play.
If you are putting on the green & there is another ball in the way Get it marked. If you don’t & you hit it, Penalty.
What is difficult about that?

Maggie
It also says ‘or lifted’.

As you know well by now the words are very precise, particularly the definitions. If the exceptions do not apply, the ball is in play.

A & B are FCs in a stableford comp.
B’s ball is 3” behind the hole but he cannot score (ie is out) and he is over by his bag sorting his clubs.
Unknown to B, A decides to putt from 20’ using B’s ball as a backstop.
As the ball is in play he would be penalised if he hit it. If it were out of play, no penalty.

I get it, it was simply a theoretical question. And there could just as easily be a negative situation.

However ive learnt here if it isnt included in rule book, then its no penalty as 2 balls in the hole. Its ironic that a ball is dead once its holed out but live when it can no longer score…just sayin!