I play in a regular Sat 4 ball at my club and we know each other pretty well so we tend to walk up to our balls ahead of the next away to prepare for our next shot. Obviously not directly in the way of our playing partners, but, up ahead. I hit my second shot and sliced it badly and low straight at one of my group. I yelled four and he turned to avoid the ball and in the process trod on his own ball embedding it about half a balls width into the turf. We decided as it was an accident he could drop the ball without penalty no closer to the hole. Were we correct in our ruling? We were all agreed this was a fair result.

The player moved his ball in play and the penalty is 1 stroke under Rule 18-2a. Apart from the missing penalty you proceeded correctly :-)

You wouldn’t consider the original spot determinable here, placing in the nearest, most similar lie?

Surely you guys can come up with some rule of equity or avoiding danger to help poor old dannynunan out here. What if you line up to hit your ball and an unseen snake jumps out at you ? being startled you jump away and accidentally tred on your ball. We know that you are allowed to get relief from a snake for safety reasons , but in this case you have moved your own ball before you have decided to take your safety drop. Penalty applies ? You have moved the ball whilst trying to avoid danger. It is similar to dannynunans situation. I have heard you guys comment sometimes that ” the rules are not an ass” , but honestly , sometimes they are pathetic.

If a player jumps to safe his life, he shouldn’t be bothered about a penalty stroke.

Accidental moving of the ball is common. There are so many ways Being startled by a call of “four” is unusual as the catayst for moving your ball in play. It doesn’t deserve special treatment.

Maybe there is not even danger potential.

For example a person well away from the direction of the erant ball might be startled and cause his ball to move or the shout comes on his downswing in a stroke and he tops his ball into a water hazard.

It is unfortunate but a normal problem.

If a player jumps to safe his life, he shouldn’t be bothered about a penalty stroke.

Hit it where they mow

Rulesdoc , that is not a very strong argument for your case.
But ,Languid , that is a much more useful reply.

dizzy

As with all rules which could involve shades of grey, it is almost impossible to find a form of words which would not penalise some accidental movements of the ball but not others. And also to distinguish between accidental and ‘accidental on purpose’, without players having to get involved in arguments about ‘cheating’.

That is why so many of the rules are black or white.

There have been several discussions on this board about making the rules simpler. Trying to cover every possibly situation with new clauses in the rules would make the book even more difficult to decipher.

I’d definitely prefer to be penalised once in my lifetime for moving my ball from being startled (maybe never, it hasn’t happened yet), knowing every comp players are not trying to swindle their way out of a penalty.

What’s your opinion on my first post, AAA?

There have been several discussions on this board about making the rules simpler. Trying to cover every possibly situation with new clauses in the rules would make the book even more difficult to decipher.

Yup, the rules would be better off eliminating penalties for all accidents (or all accidental movement of a ball in play) than creating another narrow exception or appplication of equity.

Steb

You wouldn’t consider the original spot determinable here, placing in the nearest, most similar lie?

 

It depends on the circumstances. Stepping on an unseen ball doesn’t always mean that the ball is simply depressed into the ground immediately below where it originally lay.
It may have been sitting up a few inches, adjacent to a lump that has now been flattened, already part embedded, on top of a difficult LI etc.

I think that unless it was on a pristine fairway, IMO it should be dropped.

Yup, the rules would be better off eliminating penalties for all accidents (or all accidental movement of a ball in play)

I’m not sure if you really mean this or if it is TIC.

Yup, the rules would be better off eliminating penalties for all accidents (or all accidental movement of a ball in play)

I’m not sure if you really mean this or if it is TIC.

If it is unclear now (I made a correction) and you would like a clarification feel free to ask for one (BTW: I have no idea what you mean by TIC).

TIC = Tongue in cheek

But I’m still not clear on what you mean.

TIC = Tongue in cheek

But I’m still not clear on what you mean.

.

The words should be taken at face value – a radical simplification (by removing penalties for all or some accidents) would be a better change than the addition of another focused exception for a rare event.

Thanks AAA.

TIC = Tongue in cheek

But I’m still not clear on what you mean.

.

The words should be taken at face value – a radical simplification (by removing penalties for all or some accidents) would be a better change than the addition of another focused exception for a rare event.

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Ah, I see what you mean.
But is that another can of worms (or snakes)? When is an accident not an accident? But if the ball is to be replaced I suppose it doesn’t really matter.

When is an accident not an accident? But if the ball is to be replaced I suppose it doesn’t really matter.

It would matter if the ball could be cleaned during replacement (and the ‘accidental’ movement occurred because of a desire to clean the ball).

Such a change (not penalizing accidental movement) would open a new avenue for someone to cheat; however, worrying about how a change affects the dishonest golfer shouldn’t be an important factor in deciding whether to make a rules change.

Such a change (not penalizing accidental movement) would open a new avenue for someone to cheat;

Yes, I mentioned that earlier.
I can’t really see the RBs allowing a ball to be cleaned though.