On an unfamiliarcourse, how can you determine exactly what is a wasteland as opposed to a bunker? Should wastelands be marked because some bunkefs dont have rakes?? Ive been caught a couple of times….
Cheers

If the wasteland is sandy, you would have to assume it is a hazard and accordingly follow the rules as to bunkers.

The course should have some information about how to tell the difference on that course.

Is there a rake in there? Normally a giveaway.

A rake does not necessarily mean that a sandy area is a bunker :-/
I have seen several waste areas with rakes.

Waste areas should be marked with signs if they in any way can be mistaken for ordinary bunkers.

Wasteland with a rake. Can you quote a course that does this?
I’m saying no rake no bunker, not the other way around.

You’ll just have to trust that I don’t lie :-)

Wasteland with a rake. Can you quote a course that does this?
I’m saying no rake no bunker, not the other way around.

There were rakes at last month’s PGA Championship despite a local rule stating that there were no bunkers on the course.

http://golfweek.com/news/20...

“There may be no bunkers at the PGA Championship, but that doesn’t mean caddies have a week off from raking. Though not required, players and caddies have been asked to rake Kiawah Island’s sandy areas as a courtesy to fellow players.”

I played Pelican Waters on the weekend. It has a number of sandy Bunker type areas adjoining Water Hazards. A Local Rule declares them not to be hazards (the specific holes are mentioned). All of them still had rakes in them.

The local rule was worded as follows;

4. Bunkers adjoined by Water Hazards (referred to as Sandy Waste Areas): Those sandy waste areas on holes 3, 5, 6, 7, 8, 14, & 15 adjoined by Water Hazards or Lateral Water Hazards are not considered hazards. Should the water of the adjoining Water Hazard or Lateral Water Hazard rise to a level beyond the stakes defining the Water Hazard then relief may be taken in accord with Rule 25-1b.

RulesGeek….........a PGA decision, not that of the club to its members.
Daves….........I get what this local rule says but not what the topic was on exactly.
I’m openly curious to know what courses have sandy areas such as The Lakes in Sydney and has rakes in them for day to day play.

Clearly no rake does not equal a wasteland. I have seen plenty of lower grade courses that don’t have rakes in every bunker. You can’t assume they are wastelands.

On ANY course it is always better to err on the side of caution, and treat all sandy areas as bunkers unless you know for a fact they aren’t.

I’m saying no rake no bunker, not the other way around.

You would play an obvious greenside bunker as a waste area if there was no rake?

If you can’t tell that a bunker is a bunker, rake or not, that’s your problem, I’m saying they are easily identifiable.
Otherwise, wastelands such as those at The Lakes are easily identifiable as not bunkers and are further backed up by not having rakes.
If I’m next to a green, I look at a patch of sand without a rake and wonder if it’s a bunker or not….......der.
If I’m walking down a fairway and I’m in a sandy area, I think I could tell whether it’s a bunker or not by it’s shape and style, rake or not.
Still waiting to hear of some courses where this confusion occurs.

Hanging out thats correct re my query. But there are obvious wastelands that have no id or local rule or rake. Perhaps if clubs were generous enought to include signage then we would be clear.

Cheers

We have two large waste areas on our 7th hole, both do not have rakes. The sand in these areas is bunker like and full of foot prints. They are not nice places to play out of.

Yep, not keen on sandy waste areas myself. Some players bound to get caught up in a huge footprint or the like, most unfair.
Fill them with native grasses or something.

Sometimes waste areas are actually natural dunes, and they can’t be filled or covered :-)

Natural sand dunes are nice, it’s the manufactured wastelands that can be an unfair part of the course sometimes. Only about the lie you get in them.
I think Barnbougle gives you relief from footprints but then you’re not playing a comp/tournament.
The Lakes in Syd is an example of many wastelands and quite often being in a huge footprint.

A Local Rule allowing free relief from footprints is not a legal Local Rule

They have ‘Irish drop’ there too, RD. Also not legal.

But who’s counting?

OB – the “irish drop” isn’t allowed by Local Rule is it :-)
I’m not too concerned about how players play their own game, but I don’t like inventive Local Rules, and the foot-print-drop sounded like one of these.

A world class course operated as a commercial enterprise and without a resident club. The aim of management is for players to enjoy themselves and not be held up unduly.

The fescue is penal – if your ball goes off the wide fairways, it is unequivocally lost. The Irish drop keeps play moving along.

It’s a public course, the footprint ‘rule’ allows for players to get a decent lie in the huge bunkers which haven’t been properly attended to by the ignoramuses who have gone before.

These rules work for the benefit of all. If they were applied more universally, golf would be generally less stressful.

Wasteland bunkers are ridiculous in my opinion. They look cheap and nasty and it depends on who has walked there in front of you as to what sort of lie you get. Especially in a tournament. Miss the fairway by a meter and you cop some muppets hoof print!

Wasteland bunkers

Large area of sandhills are a feature of real links courses up here (relief would never be dreamt of) but what is a ‘Wasteland bunker’?

Are they prepared/manufactured as part of the course construction or just unmaintained bunkers (as defined)?
How do you know what the margin of such an area is so that a drop can be ‘justified’?

Why are they not just called ‘sandy areas’?

That’s the problem (or part of it). Is it just sandy ground or a defined hazard? More to the point, why should it make any difference? I know that it does, but why should it?

When golf was invented on links ground, there were sandy areas. When courses became ‘manufactured’, sandy areas were created and they were defined as hazards with special rules applying. Ok, it adds another dimension to the game, but would golf be any more or less enjoyable if they were simply sandy ground without special rules? It would still take extra skill to play out of them, or one could take an unplayable out of the troublesome area. Would that make golf any less enjoyable, or less of a challenge?