at one of the courses we play they have an island green. this is marked with yellow stakes at about 10 m intervals. this leaves the quadrants between the stakes and the edge of the green in the hazard. unless the ball passas directly over the stake there is always part of the green that a player can drop keeping his last point of entry between him and the flag. there seems no restriction that you can not drop on this area even though it is in the hazard. i believe that the green needs a yellow line around the edge or better still a local rule as advised by the r & a that a local rule for a drop zone on island greens should be used

Although in a perfect world a line all the way round would exist, in reality courses are rarely marked like this (unless it is a pro competition). However, you cannot take advantage of this ‘inadequate’ marking by drawing a straight line between the stakes that are there.

26/2 Ball Within Natural Margin of Water Hazard But Outside Stakes Defining Margin

Q. Stakes defining the margin of a water hazard were improperly installed. As a result, an area which clearly was part of the water hazard was outside the stakes and, thus, technically was outside the hazard. A player’s ball came to rest in water in this area. The player claimed that, in view of the alignment of the stakes, his ball was in casual water through the green. Was the claim valid?

A. No. The Committee erred in not properly defining the margin of the hazard as required by Rule 33-2a, but a player is not entitled to take advantage of such an error. Since it was clear that the place where the player’s ball lay was within the natural boundaries of the water hazard, the claim should not be upheld.

.....and the opposite would be true too! Besides, there is no relief option for a ball in a water hazard which involves dropping in the same water hazard.

Also, if you continue to draw a straight line between the stakes then better not ground your putter on the green if it’s in the hazard. ;-)

Rule 26-1 only uses the words ‘behind’ and ‘outside’ the hazard in repect to relief.

A course I play has the water hazard markers well outside the potential water level and, like this question about 10m apart. When working out where the margin is should the contour of the land or the water be used.

Leroy

With the stakes as close as that you should use a straight line from stake to stake.

But do you know what the Local Rule actually says?

AAA

I’ve not seen the LR on paper. All the card says is that yellow and red pegs mark the hazards.

I don’t mind taking a straight line between the pegs as the margin. It just seems silly that one ball can be a short distance from the water yet not in the hazard and another be further from the water but in the hazard.

33-2a/4 Where to Place Lines or Stakes Defining Margin of Water Hazard

Lines and stakes defining the margins of a water hazard should be placed as nearly as possible along the natural limits of the hazard, i.e., where the ground breaks down to form the depression containing the water.

A straight line between the stakes is not good enough IMO.

Marking water hazard margins is sometimes straightforward and sometimes not.
The Committee should consider the practical aspects of the relief procedure in particular. For example if the margins are marked close to the natural margin at the bottom of a steep bank relief under 26-1c and perhaps under 26-1b may be so bad that a player’s only practical option is 26-1a ( = stroke and distance).
This is not good. It turns water hazards into defacto out of bounds areas.
There is consideration for time and undue delay.
If the relief under 26-1c is on an adjacent path for example there is a prospect of multiple drops and placing.
Without the whole picture on the hole, the water hazard and the surrounding terrain it is difficult to know whether aCommittee did a good job or not.

DEC

Some WHs have such an irregulart shape that you have to resort to straight lined betwwen stakes. Most courses these days simply cannot afford the time and labour cost to maintain painted lines.
The problem of a ball being beyond the line on dry land is not uncommon even with ‘natural breaks’ and only requires the player to remember not to ground his club.

AAA

The problem that this thread started with was that in some cases this dry land could actually be the putting green. Of course if a straight line just incorporates ‘deadground’ into the WH that is fine.

You will remember the LRs I posted elsewhere particularly the instance where water hazards were ‘unmarked.’ In this case you have to rely on D33-2a/4.

Link to LR

this discussion all leads back to my original problem with island greens having stakes to mark the margins. if as the r & a recomends that all island greens have a drop zone for any ball finishing in the water then there would be no issues. good enough for the pros good enough for us choppers

The discussion did drift from your original posting.
I agree that drop zones can be THE smart thing to have to allow the game to flow and avoid controversies and unintended results from the course markings.
On minimising stakes and avoiding the cost of maintaining panited lines consider using painted paving bricks set flush with the turf at suitable intervals to give clear indication of the margins.
This is easier for course maintenance and lasts well.
Drop zones can be done with painted bricks to define margins. I favour rectangular shapes and generous size for DZ’s.