Just wondering if there are players using irons not suited for their handicap. in particular high-mid markers playing irons suited to low markers. Or even low markers playing game improvement irons.

Its a gross oversimplification to say that there is always a correlation between club style and playing ability.

Many professionals use so called game improvement clubs and many don’t.

Personally I think its worth the effort to get fitted for clubs or at least use demo days to try to identify the clubs that will best suit your needs.

Cheers
John

I play with a guy (15 h’cap) who used Honma blades, simply because they were reputed to be good. After pestering him to change to c/backs, he did , and dropped 3 shots within a month. I personally feel as though mid to high h’cappers (and sometimes low ) get better results using c/backs.

I was off 27 when I started using my Tommy Armour Silverscot Muscle Backs. Off 17.6 now and still use em. Golf has gone a little backwards at the moment but I know if I work hard and through the current issues that they will serve me well once again.

Just wondering if there are players using irons not suited for their handicap. in particular high-mid markers playing irons suited to low markers. Or even low markers playing game improvement irons.

Yes to all of the above …. just look through the bags at your club on any weekend. Just shows the power of marketing – everyone wants to be Tiger, Phil, Adam or otherwise.

I am off 15 (just) now when I got my Titleist 695MB I was off 21. I am not a very good ball striker. But I want my perfect shot to be perfect.
Having say that, if I hit a bad shot, the feel is terrible and the ball will not go very far :(

my handicap is 27.1 and play with mizuno mp-60. I bought this set to replace 2nd hand macgregor M455 because my research shows that this sort of irons will teach you to play golf. I don’t like the game improvement range because the club head is big.

Irons don’t teach people to play golf unfortunately…NH16, there are good quality forged cavity back irons with smaller heads…for example the srixon i-701 tour…this is a generalisation but i’m lead to believe cavity back irons would be much more suited to higher handicap or older players…they are more forgiving and help a bit more getting the ball in the air, right?

hmmmm …... myths and assumptions aplenty !

Simple fact is your handicap, age, dexterity, weight or alike do not accuractely define your ability and/or your swing characteristics so therefore cannot be the basis on which you choose option x over y or vice versa.

Only way to truly resolve it is via a PROPER fitting centre and the investment of time and effort. This should include time discussing your game and needs (ie do you want to be the next Tiger, break 90 on a weekly basis or just out drive your playing partners), a launch monitor session and then test clubs you can take away at use on the range and during a round. The process may cover a couple of visits and end up costing you $300+ as the time and expertise of a fitting professional, like any tradesman, is not free.

This money spent up front will often be credited on the final club price but even if it isn’t it will more than be repaid by your increased enjoyment and improvement of the game we call golf once you have the RIGHT tools in your hands.

I’m pretty sure many of us have a garage full ( or thereabouts ) of the wrong club (s), quite apart from those that we might not want to part with or are collecting.
Just about anyone with half way decent hand/eye co-ordination can pick up something off the shelf and hit it.
The real question is, is this the “best fit” for you. The answer will almost always be no because the “off the shelf” stuff, irrespective of its quality, is a general suit all types as best it can, the retailers cant afford the range of stock that covers every base.
Best advice, don’t listen to anyone ( we all have our personal likes & dislikes, that’s human nature ) EXCEPT a reputable club fitter & if you can get references for him ( this forum will probably help ) and best if you can try before you buy ( demo days & the like ).
Whatever, don’t buy blades or flash shafts unless the clubfitter suggests this is best for you ( or you will pay, one way or another ).
Off the soap box now.
Baz

Just about anyone with half way decent hand/eye co-ordination can pick up something off the shelf and hit it

I didn’t say how well !!!

Once again it comes down to the level you are currently at and where you want to go with golf.

Irons don’t teach people to play golf unfortunately…NH16, there are good quality forged cavity back irons with smaller heads…for example the srixon i-701 tour…this is a generalisation but i’m lead to believe cavity back irons would be much more suited to higher handicap or older players…they are more forgiving and help a bit more getting the ball in the air, right?

Anyone selling Titleist 735CM ???

I have just moved on from a set of Callaway X-18’s to Mizuno MX-25s, both cavity backs and rated as ‘game improvement’ irons, but oh so different.

The Mizuno’s have a slightly smaller head and IMHO are less forgiving than the Callys were, (note the Callys were bought straight off the shelf whereas I have had the lofts and lies sorted on the Miz’s)

The 25’s certainly feel sweeter to hit, with more feedback, wheeras the the X-18’s always felt a bit ‘dead’.

In fact, since getting them I have managed to move my HCP one in the wrong direction, from 19 – 20, but that is more to do with getting used to the different characteristics/distances of the new irons than the actual clubs, (and I am sticking to that excuse -
though if it keeps going that way keep an eye out for a set of Miz. 25’s in the Classified’ section!)

I use a foged cavity with smaller head as its an all-rounders club….

srixon I-506’s…they are caitys so they are forgiving, can shape the ball also….and the feel great best of both worlds really

I play of 10…but intrestingly iron ball striking has never been my big issue

driving was…and putting was terrible (f*en still is :-) ....

Before committing to MP-60 I spent a lot of time reading about reviews on www.golfreview.com Originally I was gonna go for MP-33, I fell in love with the cosmetic aspects of the club, lucky me the iron was discontinued.

So I moved to the next best thing, something that look sleek and perform well . According to reviewers at golf review, the MP-60 gives you superior feedback and apparently feedback is important if you’d like to assess your swing. Also, according to the reviews, this iron will not mask your flaws, it will not compensate your shortcomings. What you hit is what you get and you can learn from it after a mishit.

You are absolutely right jarrod … irons don’t teach people to play golf. There are a lot of aspects of golf game eg. Course management, woods, wedge play, reading greens to name a few. I suppose my angle is having good quality irons will help people develop their iron play and therefore play better golf.

Yes I tend to believe that cavity back is designed for high handicappers so off centre hits still have decent distance and flight.

NH16:

There are two sides to the coin on this debate.

Yes you are off 27 and yes you are playing with blades (good sticks to by the way). Now If I had of been commenting a month or two ago I would have agreed with everyone and said get perimeter weighted it makes life easier. However, there is a reverse side to this argument that I truly believe in now. It stems from advice from an ISG member in the following thread.

LET’S TALK GOLF MACHINE Thread re Blades for Improvement

Lag Pressure is an absolute guru when it comes to playing and advice. Initially I was skeptical on what he was saying but after trying it myself, I truly believe there is merit in what his says.

If your goal is to become the best ball striker you can be and you are prepared to work really hard, blades will be your ticket. Due to their small sweet spot, you need to strike them well, if you don’t you get massive amounts of feedback! Feedback through pain (hit one thin yet?) and through less than average ball flight is a great teacher, if you are prepared to perservere and accept slower progress.

If you are not prepared to put in some time and just want to play socially, I would say ditch em and get the most forgiving ones you can find!

Here is how you can use your blades to become a great ball striker:
1. Chip: make solid crisp contact with chips to start.
2. Pitch: learn to pitch with them. Good contact, nice ball flight
3. Half shot: Step up to mid-low irons and hit plenty of half shots, maximising your contact. Get good ball flight.
4. Three Quarter shot: Same principle as above.
5. Full shot: same again.

Every practice session work up this ladder 1-5. Anytime you start making poor contact whether its at 2 or 5, head back down to step 1 and climb the ladder again. I have never been a good ball striker on irons but let me tell you after a month of solid practice like this I am starting to throw darts!

Get a good coach (let me know where you live and we will put you in touch with someone?) to refine technical issues.

If you follow these steps vigilently, watch your handicap plummett and wave as you over take all the people that took the easy way out and headed straight to the “game improvement” section!

AB

Here is how you can use your blades to become a great ball striker:
1. Chip: make solid crisp contact with chips to start.
2. Pitch: learn to pitch with them. Good contact, nice ball flight
3. Half shot: Step up to mid-low irons and hit plenty of half shots, maximising your contact. Get good ball flight.
4. Three Quarter shot: Same principle as above.
5. Full shot: same again.

thisshould be the premis for all golfers no matter waht they use

Left wrist: hey right wrist did you feel that
Right wrist: yep! what was it
Left wrist: dunno
Both: ouch! there it is again
Hey Brain, you payin attention
Brain: of course! who do you think is telling you this is hurting
Wrists: OUCH! what the f..k
Wrists: whats goin on
Brain: new golf clubs
Wrists: what’s a golf club…OUCH!
Brain: HE hits a little white ball with them
Wrists: is this new
Brain: no just new clubs, HE calls them “blades”
Wrists: huh!
Brain: HIS mates told them HE would hit the ball better with them
Wrists: what about us
Brain: You guys, hands & me are supposed to give HIM more “feedback” with these “blade” things
Wrists: OUCH !! whaddya you mean
Brain: we let HIM know if he hits it good or bad
Wrists: huh!
Brain: if you guys hurt HE’S hit it s..t
Wrists: hey eyeballs you watchin whats happening
Eyes: yep HE pays no attention to us, needs “feedback” from you guys
Wrists: OUCH there HE goes again
Brain: HE doesn’t listen to me, I told him to go back to the X20’s
Eyeballs: yeh, they went ok, BUT these “blade” things look better
Wrists: LOOK BETTER !! what about us
Brain: HE feels more “MACHO” with the “blades”
Wrists: hey BALLS, are you guys asleep??
Balls: don’t bring us into this we have enough trouble with ” dick head” down here
R Wrist: OUCH! if this keeps up lefty & me are havi’n three weeks off

Ignorance is obviously bliss!!

..for the golfer that wants to spend their life being average!

The two strongest motivators in life are:

Avoid pain
Gain Pleasure

Avoiding pain, whether it be physical or emotional is by far the strongest human motivator

Dave1:

Very true

There are 3 things in life that don’t stand the test of time:

Girls that wear padded bras
Dogs that chase cars
And Pros that chip for pars!!

Gain pleasure – WIN

Eyeballs: hey brain
Brain: yep
Eyeballs: these “blade” thingo’s
Brain: yep
Eyeballs: you gettin the visuals we’re sending ?
Brain: have been for weeks
Eyeballs: whatya doin with them
Brain: sending digital signals to wrists & programming muscle memory
Eyeballs: muscles have memory?
Brain: nope BUT HE thinks so
Eyeballs: your programming getting any better results than our visuals?
Brain: nope, you should hear the wrists whinging
Eyeballs: how long this blade business goes on you think?
Brain: till HE gets to scratch handicap
Eyeballs: yeh we read about that, HE’s on 15 right!
Brain: yep
Eyeballs: how long to scratch you think
Brain: (sigh) who knows, but HE does not want to be “average”
Eyeballs: average compared to what?
Brain: who knows
Eyeballs: “average” can’t win, right?
Brain: nope

Sounds alot like the conversation my Brain and Eyes must have.

Muscle memory is a common term for neuromuscular facilitation, which is the process of the neuromuscular system memorizing motor skills.

When an active person repeatedly trains movement, often of the same activity, in an effort to stimulate the mind’s adaptation process, the outcome is to induce physiological changes which attain increased levels of accuracy through repetition. Even though the process is really brain-muscle memory or motor memory, the colloquial expression “muscle memory” is commonly used.

Individuals rely upon the mind’s ability to assimilate a given activity and adapt to the training. As the brain and muscle adapts to training, the subsequent changes are a form or representation of its muscle memory.

There are two types of motor skills involved in muscle memory: fine and gross. Fine motor skills are very minute and small skills we perform with our hands such as brushing teeth, combing hair, using a pencil or pen to write, touch typing or even playing video games. Gross motor skills are those actions that require large body parts and large body movements as in the throwing sports such as bowling, American football, and baseball, sports such as rowing, basketball, golf, judo, and tennis, and activities such as driving a car (especially one with a manual transmission), playing a musical instrument, and marksmanship.

Muscle memory is fashioned over time through repetition of a given suite of motor skills and the ability through brain activity to inculcate and instill it such that they become automatic. As one reinforces those movements through repetition, the neural system learns those fine and gross motor skills to the degree that one no longer needs to think about them, but merely to react and perform appropriately. In this sense the muscle memory process is an example of automating an OODA Loop in so far as one learns to Observe, Orient, Decide, and Act.

Brain: Why don’t I understand these things?
Eyes: Because you never utilise us to read things stupid
Mouth: And always chime in and open wide….
Feet: Don’t forget you spend half your time choking on us!!
Brain: So why can’t I play golf properly?
Hands: Because you are using us for endless bouts of self pleasure instead of going to the range and working on it ya loser.
Eyes: Is that why we spend so much time viewing www.heygofistme.com??
Brain: Exactly, I can only think with one head at a time! The little one seems to get most of the action.
Right wrist: Hey that reminds me, brain can you learn to use the left one occasionally, Im starting to get RSI from over use!

Cary Mumford would beg to differ on muscle memory, I would not be so bold.